--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote: > > I think you're trying to idealize the situation. > No one, including me, would not consider "sitting > with no-thought, no-mantra" as non-meditation. It's > just that given the descriptions of meditation given > by Lawson and others here on FFL in the past, I am > not convinced that's the situation we're talking > about. (I have no such reservations when Xeno talks > of what his meds are like.) > > I suspect instead that what we're talking about is > "siting with thoughts." That, to me, is not meditation, > but daydreaming. > > In other traditions than TM, this is *not* looked upon > as a productive use of one's time, because in practice > extended periods of daydreaming leads to dullness, a > tendency to dwell in the "gray" areas of the lower > astral planes, and a number of less-than-positive > behavioral traits such as being obsessive, dogmatic, > and argumentative. In these traditions the behavioral > "symptoms" are usually the tip-off that someone has > replaced meditation with daydreaming.
Just as "inter-path information," provided for those interested in such things, in the traditions I've encountered who feel that daydreaming is a negative practice, the ultimate "symptom" of some- one who has fallen into this habit is revealed by one particular symptom. That is, how do they *react* when the teacher or teachers suggest that they're daydreaming rather than meditating. In such traditions, if the student reacts well, takes the advice of the teacher(s) into consideration, and actually *analyzes* his or her meditations to see if they're "on track," then no problemo...the habit of mistaking daydreaming for meditation is not fully established, and can be reversed. If the student reacts angrily, or with significant *attachment* to how he or she is "meditating" now, then in these traditions this is taken as a symptom that the daydreaming habit is well established, so much so that the student has developed a Class A obsession with it. In such cases, further steps of "intervention" are often required to help him or her get back to the "Beginner's Mind" of meditation, as it was originally taught to them. You see a similar reactivity in the TMO, in my exper- ience. The more strongly a TMer feels that they "don't need a checking," the more they probably need one. The allure of being "lost in thoughts" is strong, because it's all about ego. The more time one spends daydreaming, the stronger and more entrenched their ego becomes. In some extreme cases these egos' attachment to their own thoughts become so strong that they come to prefer them over either the mantra (or whatever the focus of their style of meditation might be) or even transcendence/samadhi. Constant thoughts cause the ego/self to grow, and to "dig its heels in" so that it can continue growing. In my experience about the only things that help to lessen the ego are periods of transcendence/samadhi and periods of focusing on others, putting their well-being ahead of one's own (selfless service). Just my opinion...
