now that is a good question - how about it, those of you on the first few six month courses? Was it known it was experimental before you went?
________________________________ From: "authfri...@yahoo.com" <authfri...@yahoo.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I don't know, I'm just asking--but weren't the course participants all aware that it was going to be experimental when they signed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread already but one vital point Kapor makes about his time on the six-month sidhi course is that he felt he and the other participants were being used as "experimental subjects". That charge carries weight, doesn't it? These early learners were the guinea pigs for the TMO developing its course material. --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote: > > >I would be surprised if going to this event was OK with the Guardians of the >Doors to the Domes. > > > > > > >________________________________ > From: "dhamiltony2k5@..." <dhamiltony2k5@...> >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14 AM >Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor > > > > > Yeah, the poor aggravated guy. Of course we know a lot more now than we did then. I was on that course too and it wasn't so bad. It was great actually. Would be good now to also hook someone like that up with a little vipassanaic practice along with the transcendence and then also cultivating more with that part in the checking notes about feeling in to the body more. That could all be very helpful to anyone going through their time of acedia. For instance this person, http://www.timeportalpubs.com/has long been very helpful these ways to the meditating community these ways. The waking down community here, https://sites.google.com/site/wakingdowninfairfield/ has been very helpful these ways too for people who suffer this way. Of course you guys left the movement long before what it is now as a meditating community. >-Buck > > >> >>>> Kapor evidently gets angry and >>leaves everything. Story >>> of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness >>> against something? You are cherry picking. Did you >>> actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer >>> on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just >>> interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This >>> guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems >>> where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation >>> with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for >>> him. >> >> >>Turq writes; >> >>Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect >>as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- >>ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it >>can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. >> >>And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, >>I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running >>those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave >>any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on >>one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors >>on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually >>*do* if someone started "heavily unstressing," other than the >>aforementioned "more (or less) TM and pranayma." Maybe >>more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows that >>a TM checking can cure anything. >> >>In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so. >>But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- "TM is >>100% life-supporting." We didn't have to plan for negative >>situations because by definition on a course on which every- >>one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen. >> >>I suspect that some here will dispute this. I further suspect >>that those doing so didn't spend much time on long rounding >>courses, and by "long" I mean in excess of six weeks. Those >>long courses in Europe didn't have any liability or medical >>insurance, either, and they certainly didn't have a team of >>reliable doctors on call. But of course there was no *need* >>for those things, because by definition on a TM course >>nothing bad could happen. The Laws Of Nature just >>wouldn't allow it. >> >>And if anything bad *did* happen, no problemo. Whatever >>it is, it can be cured with pranayama and more (or less) TM. >>Maybe a checking. >> >> >> >> >>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: >> >> >>Buck schticks (at least I hope it's schtick): >> >>> >>>> Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story >>> of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness >>> against something? You are cherry picking. Did you >>> actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer >>> on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just >>> interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This >>> guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems >>> where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation >>> with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for >>> him. >> >>Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect >>as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- >>ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it >>can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. >> >>And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, >>I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running >>those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave >>any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on >>one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors >>on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually >>*do* if someone started "heavily unstressing," other than the >>aforementioned "more (or less) TM and pranayma." Maybe >>more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows that >>a TM checking can cure anything. >> >>In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so. >>But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- "TM is >>100% life-supporting." We didn't have to plan for negative >>situations because by definition on a course on which every- >>one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen. >> >>I suspect that some here will dispute this. I further suspect >>that those doing so didn't spend much time on long rounding >>courses, and by "long" I mean in excess of six weeks. Those >>long courses in Europe didn't have any liability or medical >>insurance, either, and they certainly didn't have a team of >>reliable doctors on call. But of course there was no *need* >>for those things, because by definition on a TM course >>nothing bad could happen. The Laws Of Nature just >>wouldn't allow it. >> >>And if anything bad *did* happen, no problemo. Whatever >>it is, it can be cured with pranayama and more (or less) TM. >>Maybe a checking. >> >> >> >>--- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote: >>> >>>that is an excellent description, Barry - I never thought of TM as a drug with side effects but I reckon that is what it is. Like a soma pill, with side efects! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: turquoiseb <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> >>>To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >>>Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 3:30 AM >>>Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mitchell Kapor >>> >>> >>> >>>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson <mjackson74@> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > So during the course nothing substantive was done for >>>>> > these folks? I mean beyond telling them to do more >>>>> > asanas or something? >>>>> >>>>> Depends on the course. On small ATR courses, no >>>>> nothing in particular was really done. On larger >>>>> courses, they might have been referred to one of >>>>> the resident quacks...uh...I mean doctors. >>>>> >>>>> But it was clear that no real effort was made to >>>>> help any of these people who were twitching >>>>> uncontrollably or having symptoms that looked >>>>> for all the world like Tourette syndrome or >>>>> worse, because the prevailing myth was always >>>>> "TM is 100% life supporting." No one was willing >>>>> to go up against that and add, "...for many >>>>> people, but for others, it may cause problems." >>>>> >>>>> Anyone I ever spoke to who was going through this >>>>> commented on the "Blame the victim" mentality they >>>>> were exposed to. It was always, "What are YOU >>>>> doing wrong that this is happening to you? We >>>>> all 'know' that it 'shouldn't' be happening." >>>> >>>>Just to follow up, Michael, here's the essential >>>>conundrum posed by all of this. I worked for some >>>>time in the West Coast Regional Office of the TMO, >>>>arranging all the weekend and longer residence >>>>courses. On the one hand, we were told by MMY's >>>>core dogma that TM was "100% life supporting," and >>>>that it could not *possibly* have any negative >>>>effects. Simply can't happen. >>>> >>>>On the other hand, as part of what we did for the >>>>TMO, we were asked to tell the course leaders and >>>>course participants that while they were on the >>>>course, they could not drive, they could not even >>>>leave the facility, on longer courses they could >>>>not go anywhere even on the facility grounds unless >>>>they were accompanied by their "buddy," and that >>>>they definitely shouldn't make any important >>>>decisions while they were on the course because >>>>their judgment might be impaired. >>>> >>>>If a drug had that many admitted side effects, >>>>you wouldn't be able to sell it without a >>>>prescription. >>>> >>>> > >
