---In [email protected], <punditster@...> wrote:
Yes, I already asked him most of these questions, Ann, and I asked Curtis and
Robin the same kinds of questions. The only response I got was from Curtis who
said that he "grew up", but he admitted that he was selling "snake-oil" for all
those years. So, I guess we can assume that they each had a turn of mind, so to
speak. But, I still wonder what really happened. Most of the things I believe
in are things that I learned back in grade school and I haven't changed my mind
since then. It must be a very traumatic experience to make a 360 like that -
from cultist to anti-cultist! Go figure.
In all seriousness, I actually agree with you.
. On 1/15/2014 8:46 AM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote:
Here is a chance for Bawwy to engage in a conversation:
Bawwy, so what personal character traits did you or do you still possess that
would have allowed you, indeed propelled you, to become a TM teacher and to
have stayed one for as long as you did? Extra point question: What character
traits or personality attributes caused you to seek out a cult leader like Rama
and to stay with him for as long as you did after abandoning TM?" Now, watch
what happens, or not.
---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected],
<turquoiseb@...> mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote:
--- In [email protected] mailto:[email protected],
Michael Jackson wrote:
>
> of course they are lying about it - that's their stock in trade
The sadder reality, Michael, one that you may not be aware of from personal
experience (or may...that is for you to say) is that they *aren't* lying.
Except to themselves.
One of the aspects of the disciple mindset (or cult mindset if you prefer) is
that people who have bought into a shitload of dogma laid on them by teachers
they now revere almost as infallible and as near-gods (think MMY) have an
incredible way of *just never thinking about* anything that contradicts that
dogma. They stuff any contradictions or cognitive dissonance away back in a
corner of their minds -- literally "out of sight, out of mind."
So technically many of these people are *not* lying -- consciously -- when
they say that TM is not a religion, often only a couple of hours after leaving
a "celebration" at MUM in which they chanted and made offerings to Hindu gods.
They push the dogma they've been told to repeat -- and which they desperately
*need* to be true to keep up their allegiance to this org/cause they've been
told is so important -- and they just hide the cognitive dissonance away in the
back of their minds and never acknowledge it.
I have sadly been there, done that. Both in the TMO and in the Rama trip, so I
know it's not only possible, but probable for *most* of the TM Teachers
repeating the "TM is not a religion" meme they've been taught to repeat. I
myself repeated the "TM is 100% life-supporting and cannot possibly have any
negative characteristics" even *while* assigned to the "Twitching Group" in
Fiuggi, surrounded by dozens of people like myself experiencing non-stop jerks
and spasms and symptoms that looked for all the world like a viral outbreak of
Tourette's Syndrome. It took *years* -- after hearing of a number of suicides
and seeing people wind up in mental hospitals after long TM courses -- before I
became open enough to recognize that I'd been lying to myself, and thus to
others. I *wanted* to believe the "no negative side effects" meme, so I managed
to blot out recognition and acknowledgement of anything that suggested it
wasn't true.
I would suspect that many of the people still clinging to the "TM is not a
religion" meme are doing the same thing. A few may indeed be consciously aware
of the reality and be lying about it, but my bet is that many are still so
stuck in the cult mindset that they feel they *have* to believe what they were
told to believe, and *have* to repeat it every time the question comes up.
Yes, it boggles the mind, but that is the nature of the cult mindset. People
who had to learn and memorize the English translation of the TM puja and "hold
it lively in their minds" every time they chanted the Sanskrit version of it
will look you straight in the eyes and call it a "non-religious, traditional
ceremony." *Some* part of them knows that they're lying, but it's a part they
can never admit into their conscious awareness.
It's really weird, but it happens every day, in pretty much every religion,
spiritual organization, and cult in the world. It even happens in business. I
remember a documentary about activists who were tried in court for staging a
demonstration at a General Electric plant back in (I think) the 60s. The
screenplay was largely drawn from transcripts of the actual trials, and thus
the under-oath testimony of workers at the plant, *dozens* of whom claimed that
they didn't know what they were building in that GE plant. "We just worked
there," they all said, claiming that they had no idea that they were working in
the largest manufacturing facility for atomic weapons in the world. Every
morning they walked in through a main entrance hall in which was prominently
displayed the nosecone of an Atlas missile, and yet they claimed that they
didn't know what they were building megadeath every day on their assembly
lines.
Go figure. That's the cult mindset for you -- protect the myths, protect the
memes, protect the image of the group that pays you or that you owe allegiance
to, hide your own everyday lies by hiding the truth even from yourself, way
down deep in parts of your mind that you never allow to surface. That's what I
think is going on when any TM Teacher these days claims that the TMO is not a
religious organization. They're not necessarily lying to you; they're lying to
themselves.
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/15/14, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote:
>
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Apostasy, is a terrible thing.
> To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected]
> Date: Wednesday, January 15, 2014, 4:58 AM
>
> 'Apostasy is the
> formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of
> a religion by a person. One who commits apostasy is known as
> an apostate.'
> As I never was the member of
> any religion, I cannot ever be correctly accused of
> apostasy. As the TM org claims it is not a religion, so no
> one can ever be correctly accused for disafilliating or
> abandoning TM as apostasy (unless of course the TM org is
> lying about that claim).
