---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote:
Ann, actually I think this is where you and Judy go off track! Judy once told
Seraph that she was raised Presbyterian. Judy has mentioned reading the
ecclesiastical novels of Susan Howatch. In light of the current topic of God
human union, I wanted to know what Judy thought as well as what she thought
Robin thought.
I made no comment about Judy's penchant for religion or otherwise. What I am
saying is that you and Barry are mistaking Judy's clarification of Robin's
stances on enlightenment as somehow related to how Judy feels. This is not the
case. Judy was merely acting as a sort of objective encyclopaedic discourser on
his views. If you wanted to know what Judy, as an individual, feels about all
of that then that is another kettle of fish altogether. I have a sneaky
suspicion you are not going to be able to talk about this without getting a bit
perturbed so maybe I should stop here. And by the way, Judy and I are separate
people who are not connected at the hip as much as some here would like to make
it seem so. I can guarantee that she and I could have some pretty knock down
drag out disagreements if it came to that which thankfully it has not. Frankly,
the woman terrifies me...
Now, about those Olympics...
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 2:33 PM, "awoelflebater@..." <awoelflebater@...>
wrote:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote:
Judy, what your beliefs have to do with this discussion is that you're the
person with whom I'm having the discussion!
Here is where Barry and you go off track. Just because Judy is trying to
explain how ROBIN felt and what he believes it doesn't have anything
necessarily to do with what Judy personally feels about all of this. All she is
doing is defining and trying to clarify Robin's position and beliefs because
she actually understands them well. But don't confuse her beliefs with his or
assume because she happens to understand what he was saying all those months
that he posted here that she agrees with any, some or all of it. She is merely
"translating".
And I've gotten the impression that you're a devout Christian. Is that
inaccurate?
What does it mean that Robin said his union with God was a delusion? Is this
where the evil forces come in?
My point is that Eastern traditions define enlightenment as union with God. But
if Robin wasn't really united with God, then how can he validly comment on
enlightenment?!
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:53 PM, "authfriend@..." <authfriend@...>
wrote:
Yes, that's what it means. Me, I haven't a clue. (What do my beliefs have to
do with this?) Yes, Robin's experience was of union with God. He believes it
was a delusion.
<< Judy, does ontological union mean: due to their respective natures, there
can be no union between God and human? And do you also believe that there can
be no ontological union between God and human?
Another question: was Robin saying that he experienced union with God? >>
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:32 PM, "authfriend@..." <authfriend@...>
wrote:
Let me put it this way: He believes all forms of enlightenment, etc., that
entail the experience of union with God are delusionary. His viewpoint is
strictly Judeo-Christian in that regard: God is wholly, immutably Other; there
can be no ontological union between human beings and God.
<< Judy, do you think Robin thinks ALL forms of realization, awakening,
enlightenment, etc. in ALL traditions are a delusion? >>
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 11:28 AM, "authfriend@..." <authfriend@...>
wrote:
Absolutely correct. He was insistent that enlightenment is a real state of
consciousness, and that he was in this state for 10-plus years. What he says he
came to realize is that the state itself is delusional--the experience of being
one with God, the identification with Self rather than self, and so on,
everything Maharishi describes, is a trick, a seduction engineered by dark
forces that do not have the welfare of human beings at heart. It's all very
real--including the special powers, the mastery of nature--but it leads away
from God.
And that, of course, is why he spent 25 years attempting--apparently
successfully--to break the unholy spell and pull himself out of that state back
into ordinary consciousness.
He made these points over and over in his posts. How anyone could read those
posts and come away with the notion that he was saying he was deluded to think
he was enlightened is just beyond me. People understand what they want to
understand, I guess.
Whether one finds Robin's analysis convincing or not, it's what he believed on
the basis of extraordinarily painful experience, and should not be
misrepresented or denigrated.
<< Judy, Robin himself called his alleged enlightenment a delusion. So I think
it's inaccurate to use the phrase "enlightened days."
Here is the important point Share: Robin believes "true enlightenment" to be a
delusion, an illusion. It is not that he is saying he wasn't enlightened in the
sense that MMY or others who understand the kind of enlightenment the East
embraces, it is that that state is a delusional state. Here is the crux: it is
not that he believes himself to have been delusional to think he was
enlightened, he would still maintain that he was enlightened, it is just that
enlightenment is not something he feels is a positive state to be in. >>
On Friday, February 7, 2014 8:04 PM, "authfriend@..." <authfriend@...> wrote:
Oh, and of course you were never around Robin during his enlightened days
anyway.
<< What's "NPS," and how were you in a position to think Robin had it,
whatever it is?
<< As for Robin, yes I found him extraordinary in many ways. Whether he had
classic NPS, I couldn't say, but it sure seemed that way to me much of the
time. But then again, it doesn't register with me much if a person is said to
be enlightened or not. >> >>
