RW, Essentially yes. Well, that sentence you quote of me was about more the bad
behavior of some in the long history of the TM movement as it was about MJ
coincidentally. But yes, what we are seeing here is a distinction between
meditating, and bad up-brings and behavior. Evidently social behavior may be
different or separate from whether someone is a meditator or not. Meditating as
the sadhana of character is different from some published papers reporting
around TM and some “improved moral reasoning” and some manifest behavior. So it
is quite likely that MJ is right and is also essentially predisposed the way he
is persisting as he does 'against TM', separate from or regardless whether he
was a meditator or not.
Now, more fundamentally interesting is that virtuous behavior otherwise has
spiritually much more to do with ones total effectiveness as a meditator or
spiritual practitioner overall. Virtue vs. sin in spirituality is quite
evidently a different system more specifically related to the subtle system of
the whole human body-mind complex of consciousness, the subtle bodies of
character and soul/Atman. Behavior that lacks virtue [is without transformative
shakti] is related more to character flaw as being unable to receive love as in
a lack of mastering of taking in the flowing shakti vector of love of the
Unified Field and giving its transmission. In character that comes in dropping
in to the heart of the matter spiritually and deciding on a soul level to take
it as a condition of congruence between the character and soul. Reclaiming
character this way is the Sadhana of the light body. The integrity of virtue
is the virtue of integrity. Core spiritual values matter most in the
refinement. Fortunately the heart likes of be effective but also has the
capacity to forgive itself with compassion. The development of the lite-body is
the sadhana of this buoyancy and the depth of character is fueled by buoyancy
of core values of virtue and that matters most. Seize the day, life is for the
living while you have it.
That is my experience with it,
-Buck
RWwrote:
bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in
the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have
so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates
So, you're thinking MJ would be the same kind of guy even if he had
never tried TM?
Yep. Very likely.
mjackson74 writes: Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: "Obviously
we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently
moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My
feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here
for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad
upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one
meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I
see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes
they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of
some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing."
The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim
it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES
EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM,
improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better
person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to get TM
to the AT RISK populations, especially the young ones??? To, among other
things, counteract BAD UPBRINGING!
So if bad upbringing can't be negated or improved by regular practice of TM,
what good is the practice? You have hoist yourself on your own petard, Buck.
You seem to be saying that if one has bad upbringing, TM won't change the
behavior that bad upbringing creates.
Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson,
Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan
Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and
manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO
have done.
Are you saying that all the above named individuals had bad upbringing? You are
making excuses for why TM obviously seems to work in reverse for people who run
the Movement.
Buck Writes:
Meditating, “improved moral reasoning”, and moral behavior. Three different
things evidently and possibly intertwined.
Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture.
Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good
upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in
writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes
from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether
some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's
what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and
sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the
part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing.
.
For instance, here is two minutes on improving behavior as learned. ..
Some sensitive caring in thoughtful upbringing, in 2 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqDfb-QhNg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqDfb-QhNg
-Buck in the Dome
Maharishi's was revolutionary and comprehensive thinking about global peace,
like "Elise M. Boulding (July 6, 1920 – June 24, 2010). Boulding offers
Building a Global Civic Culture: Education for an Interdependent as a holistic
first step towards solving international conflicts. She envisions a “global
civic culture” as not simply made of nation states but as a global community of
human beings. The book enforces the idea of thinking globally on a microcosmic
level to facilitate solving problems in a peaceful international order.
Boulding believed that a civic world order could become a reality, while
acknowledging the strife that exists now. "Building a Global Civic Culture" is
geared toward addressing the world’s problems and offering ideas for solutions.
To create peace, Boulding believes that we must all become teachers and
develop new learning communities. Everyone, old and young, will teach. Age
groups will teach each other from their respective generations. How we perceive
events unique to our generation shapes the lens through which we each see later
events. We need to know what the world looks like to young and old alike.
Boulding believes all will be teachers.
In order to do this, we must learn to think outside of the box. Humans are
intuitive, creative animals with cognitive-analytic reasoning abilities. We as
human animals can grasp complex wholes from partial sets of facts. Boulding
states that for most of us, education has been tied to the maxim “stick to the
facts, no need for imaginative thinking.” We are taught in school that
imagination and intuition are virtues of the daydreamer, not the true student.
To the contrary, Boulding states we need to harness both intuition and
imagination to solve world crises. Ultimately this book encourages us to become
both teachers and problem solvers and includes exercises to lead the way.
Elise M. Boulding was a Quaker sociologist [many credentials], and author
credited as a major contributor to creating the academic discipline of Peace
and Conflict Studies. Her holistic, multidimensional approach to peace research
sets her apart as an important scholar and activist in multiple fields. Her
written works span several decades and range from discussion of family as a
foundation for peace, to Quaker spirituality to reinventing the international
“global culture”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elise_M._Boulding#Building_a_Global_Civic_Culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elise_M._Boulding#Building_a_Global_Civic_Culture
Evidently as practicing and experience meditators we are not alone in our
experience around this. There are other mystics who see this too.
-Buck in the Dome
S3raphita , I feel you are being quite saintly in taking notice of the
circumstance. Yep, it is just another sign of bad upbringing and the failure of
our schools and society. Including fault of all those collectively standing
around smirking who without initiative themselves or had the opportunity in
their own lives to pursue the proper upbringing of virtue of spiritual life
themselves and all those who who may know better will themselves not going out
even on a limb to help anyone other than themselves in their own material world
of widget worth.
I sense saintly virtue in you that you would even notice the collective
failure in this incident in this poor unlucky youth. The shoplifter is just
another index showing the lack in our meissner-like collective transmission of
collective consciousness of virtue in life. You are a teacher of the absolute
wisdom in life are you not? A transmitter of spiritual virtue? It makes sense
that you are sensitive to what was in that public scene. It is now the age of
science and it is neigh time they put quiet-time meditation in to the training
of all our children in their schools, if their families can not provide it for
their own children if not just to save us all. To save us all from this
vileness otherwise there is a place for public education in these sound values
of life. All it takes is some quiet-time. It pisses me off too to watch the
smirking jerks as you point to, like some even here who would actually stand in
the way and fight what is such evident science and get in the way of the larger
transmission of virtue in life. Yep, all those smirking jerks all watching the
theatre of this youth being taken off should all be sending checks of donation
as a matter of character to the David Lynch Foundation to help in the trenches
in the fight against all that is vile in life. The teaching of and learning of
the transcendental meditative state is the inalienable right to be guaranteed
of every human being born in to this life. That is the first right that needs
to be first guaranteed to every child growing up. Teaching of effective
transcending meditation in all our schools is now the scientific standard of a
proper education and should be all our public's policy regardless. I commend
you for bringing this sad story to our attention here at FFL. You are a saint
in reaching for the transformation that awareness can bring. It would be
cruelty to know the great virtue of life and not say anything or do anything
about this situation. Thanks for bringing this to our attention here. It will
likelymake us all better for it in pursuing our spiritual practices as we go
about our daily lives. Thanks, you are a saint.
-Buck
s3raphita writes:
Today I was walking past a department store when a sudden commotion caught my
attention. A young man was being frogmarched to a waiting police car by two
constables - obviously he was a shoplifter who hadn't been as careful as he
should have been. But what appalled me was that everyone around me - fellow
pedestrians, people in coffee shops, those waiting at the bus stop - were
almost universally smiling and exchanging knowing glances. I've noticed that
reaction countless times in similar situations. But me: I just felt depressed.
Here was a youth, perhaps on his way to prison. His mum and dad and sisters,
his other relatives and his friends would be shocked and saddened by the news
of his arrest. What is there to smile about for God's sake? It's a reaction
I've noticed about other misfortunes. People see drug addicts in the final
stages of degradation and judge these unfortunates as being "losers". I see the
same people and wonder what sexual or physical abuse they suffered as children
- or maybe as adults they encountered some other misfortune, perhaps having to
see a loved one die slowly and painfully of cancer - and think to myself how
lucky I am that I have never had to cope with such trauma. So is Seraphita a
saint? Not bloody likely. I am as selfish, as self-centred, as narrowly
concerned with my own well-being as anyone. The difference seems to be an
ability to enter imaginatively into the suffering of others and appreciate what
a raw deal they had. Of course, some shop-lifters and drug addicts are complete
saddos and probably need a kick up the arse and told to get a grip. But many
will have just been unlucky - and luck plays a dominant role in all our lives.
Imagination is often dismissed as idle fancy but really it is a faculty in
which we grasp real aspects of the world - just like perception and reason. But
perhaps another cause for people to enjoy the misfortunes of others - complete
strangers at that - is that they are unhappy ("The mass of men lead lives of
quiet desperation." - Thoreau) and seeing someone worse off than themselves
gives them a boost. They suddenly see that their own lives could be even more
miserable so for a brief moment they can feel complacently self-satisfied.
Alas - according to Nietzsche - pity is just cruelty disguised. There's a lot
to be said for that view - just observe carefully how your friends and
colleagues savour reports of disasters on the latest news bulletins while
convincing themselves how compassionate they are. So what can we conclude? That
Seraphita is a hypocrite! Heads you win; tails I lose.
.
O
