Hey Michael,
Quite a spiel, and pretty one sided to boot.
Since you mentioned Reed Martin and my incident with him at Livingston Manor,
really I didn't recall him so much as arrogant, as a little misguided. And I
didn't come away feeling any resentment. It was as though "nature" was pushing
me to go in another direction. (please excuse the TM speak, but that's the best
I can describe it)
On the other hand, some of the others you've mentioned I'd sort of have to
agree with your assessment.
Now, on the other hand, in any endeavor, or organization, you are going to see
quite a range of personality traits. But all those people have chosen to be on
this path, for whatever reason. The people that I've chosen to associate with
on this path exhibit traits quite a bit different than those in the examples
you point out.
You will say, "proves my point. asses before TM, asses after TM". But there
are no guarantees in the enlightenment game. Without a degree, (actually heavy
dose) of self reflection, you are not going to progress much, or at least very
quickly, IMO.
But you are happy to indict the whole organization on this basis. And you are
claiming the organization makes exaggerated claims that others readily buy
into. I think you are painting a pretty inaccurate picture.
And of course, the card you love to play is to any one who disagrees with you,
is a cult apologist. Perhaps you don't realize what trait you are revealing
when you repeatedly do that.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote :
that shouldn't have a single thing to do with people who do TM - the PR on TM
is that it improves life on ALL levels - mental, physical, emotional,
relationships and the implication is made that money issues will disappear with
the improved all around functioning of the individual brought on by regular TM
and TMSP practice and is flat out stated that money problems will go away if
one has MAHARISHI yagyas and lives in a MAHARISHI vastu designed house.
yet the evidence is undeniable that TM'ers do unfortunate things such as
commit suicide and do bad things like rape, robbery, professors who target
students for sex (that's right I'm talking 'bout John Hagelin) commit fraud
(like Beckley) - you yourself David have complained loudly and often about the
behavior of Bevan Morris whose draconian methods of control according to you
have kept Dome numbers low.
You can't accept that the long term meditators can have anything wrong with
them that can be attributed to the practice itself, so you have to lay it off
on factors that, by the TMO's own PR should have been eliminated with TM and
its adjunct programs. Yet you continue to excuse TM and the TMO and say there
are mitigating factors. If its upbringing, the practice of TM corrects those
factors, that's what the TMO says.
So how do these behaviors manifest in a long term TM'er? Those more
esoterically minded lay it off on "personal karma" yet we have been told by the
Grand Liar Marshy that TM practice releases karma. Look, either TM works AS
ADVERTISED or it doesn't. And it is obvious that it doesn't. So you have to
make excuses. I have always acknowledged that TM is an enjoyable practice for
some people and some people are very decent folks whom I have known who are
True Blue Believers, but not because they do TM. As to TM teachers, its the
same thing. If they would have been decent people without TM, they are with TM
and if they are asses without TM, they will be asses with TM.
One example is John Briganti, used to teach in Charleston SC - I have not seen
him in many years, but when I first met him on the first residence course I
ever took, he was a down to earth very decent man who did not give bullshit
answers to questions nor always take the TM party line and he treated everyone
he met with courtesy and respect. Gene Speigel who was in charge of the Atlanta
TM Center when it was the Area Capitol in charge of the TM Centers in several
South Eastern states and who taught my third residence course was an arrogant,
abrasive, abusive sorry son of a bitch and while I have not seen him in years
either, I bet he still is - has nothing to do with TM either way. Except for
one thing:
It sure seems that those who are natural sons of bitches like Gene Speigel,
Chris Crowell, Susan Humphries, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bevan Moriss, that
arrogant ass Neil Patterson, Bill Sands, Reed Martin ('member him Steve? The
one who kept you from going to Zambia?) remain natural sons of bitches and
those who are naturally nice people remain nice people - TM makes no dent in
one's personality whatsoever with one odd exception and that is much like Nazi
Germany, those who were most like the leader -arrogant, abusive, elitist seem
to rise to the top levels of the TMO - must be collective karma.
Bottom line is TM and TMSP is a nice thing that makes some people feel nice
inside themselves, sometimes for decades. The same practice causes mental
instability, emotional problems and leads to other problems too - you can lay
it off on their "personal karma" or whatever you like, but the rubber never
meets the road where TM is concerned and you have to make excuses for the
practice and for the TMO. I know that you personally David believe that TMSP
will save the world, and God Bless you for your desire to make that happen, but
I hope you are not holding your breath as you wait.
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/1/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... <dhamiltony2k5@...
mailto:dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Venture Fund
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 1, 2014, 2:55 AM
Bad socialization in an upbringing can be seen
anywhere in a
people at any station. Evidently even in thel growing
illumined.
There is certainly Nature and there is certainly nurture in
any
person. People are born in to the temple as the human
nervous system
that comes with some manufactured standard equipment [OEM]
like
consciousness, egos, mind, heart and intellect. And then
there are
the families and communities they are born in to. We should
not
overlook the significance of poor to middling upbringings of
some of
those even in the TM movement to explain some of their
behavior aside
from some factors around illumination on a scale of
consciousness.
Yep,
actually Dr. David Hawkins the late great Western sage had a
lot to say about this thing of ethical behavior and
consciousness too.
I feel MJ here is making way to much of a fuss about all
this stuff
in the past. Seems like abnormal fussiness. Evidently as
with
any socio-pathology the thing to do to protect a community
or any
organization from bad behavior is to have metrics for
performance to
judge people by. Aside from norms the science seems to say
that the sociopaths show
themselves for who they are when there are standards of
performance. That is good information in getting
along: groups and organizations beware and protect
yourselves accordingly, -Buck
turquoiseb writes:
That was
probably the problem with the rioting pandits, too...their
upbringing. Nothing to do with TM at
all...
Actually the
attorneys general protecting the general public have
put most the crooked community meditators out of business
either in
to jail or barred from at least security business, some
barred for
life. It is not that these
bad-minded ones were meditators but much more
likely examples of asocial bad-upbringing. Much more likely
they were victim of their poor upbringings from where ever
they came
from. Those
crooked while certainly part of the old story of
Fairfield, Iowa hardly represent the larger good of the
meditating
community of Fairfield, Iowa.
Om, just to be a
little
more accurate about some things mentioned below for any
outsiders
looking in, it was [International Trading Group] ITG
churning
accounts with made up information that the SEC sanctioned.
Telegroup
was taking in good people's money from the community at
their front
door while loading it out the back door as they were filing
for
bankruptcy. Beckley's and his people was a different
route of
consumer fraud played on people.-Buck
Yes, and thanks
be to the Unified Field for the States
Attorneys Generals out there doing the good work of
protecting us all
as the larger and civic [meditating] community from bad
people doing bad things.
-Buck
Mjackson74
writes:I'd
just as soon "invest" my money with Ed
Beckley.
There
have been a bunch of them there in Fairfield, haven't
there? My favorite TM business scam story to date is one
that someone shared here right after I first began posting
on FFL about the Movement asking for "investors"
to create an ayurvedic clinic there in Fairfield and the
investors would get their money back, plus profit sharing
and discounts on products and services - and the minute the
Movement had the money the immediately reneged on the deal,
saying all the "investors" would be re-payed only
with the discounts - no profits, no return of initial
investments, nothing! My favorite!
Duveyoung
writes:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re:
Fairfield Venture Fund
Telegroup? I would think
they'd beashamed to even mention the
name. Crooks, liars andthieves sure love to do
highfalutin' sounding enterprises.
Is this another
one?
Sorry guys, maybe your intents are pure, but look at the
track history of "faith-based" businesses in
Fairfield -- if you're not going to address all the
failures -- especially of the businesses that seemingly
toed
the movement line, then, hey, you're just
bullshitting
us.
How'z about someone in this new group explains how
USAGlobalLink failed, or how it was okay for Kaplan to
"steal" the business of Reading's Fun from
a
former partner or how Telegroup [ITG] "just made up
their
advice" to their customers in order to churn the
accounts?
BAH!
..
