---In [email protected], <mjackson74@...> wrote :
Then you are doing what you accuse me of, not letting go of your anger. I do not consider you an enemy, if you consider me so, that's your business. I consider no one my enemy. There is no such thing in my life and you certainly don't qualify even if I did. But on forums like these it doesn't take much to turn someone against you - and fast. I also welcome the chance to see someone in a different way (if we are talking about "anger" and Barry here.) I have no need or desire to demonize anyone, I have no attachment to it. I find value in most people's posts here including those I disagree with. I have gotten value from Judy correcting me sometimes when I have made a mistake in something I said, or in not quoting a source. I have gotten value from some things that Steve and Doc have posted, and even Feste who has taken great umbrage at some of my posts. The only people I really have gained nothing from are Richard who is just too off the wall for me to even understand sometimes and Nabby who is... well, he's Nabby. There are all sorts of characters here, myself included. If I didn't find I was getting more out of this than I was putting in then I would stop frequenting the place. I also really like the chance to write and think and consider and FFL sort of allows me to do that. Although I am a forum virgin, this being my first, and although I have figured it out pretty well I still find it an interesting example of human nature and it is a context that I had previously never had access to (web forums). When I open a post to take a look I am always ready to be surprised. Some posters here are often valuable reading, some are predictable and some are irrelevant to my life. But then, that is pretty similar to life off the computer. I admire what you have done with your life, especially after having gone through the RC thing. But I don't need you to tell me what I should or shouldn't do. I suggest you simply accept the fact that I oppose the TM Movement on a number of grounds. I accept the fact that you oppose the TM Movement and I respect that. I love a renegade and someone willing to stand up for what they believe but I also think it essential that we all take responsibility for what it is we feel after having become disenchanted with a thing. I think it irresponsible and narrow minded to blame the thing 100% for our disappointment with it. I also know in your case you had lots of reasons for feeling the way you do; I think you have been treated abominably at various times during your time in the Movement (based on your recollections) and so I can understand that. I told you I had many good friends on staff and in particular a woman who worked as a baker (before your time). I have told you that I appreciate the effort, energy, skill and time that went into making us students such amazing food. I was at MIU for 4 years and ate myself silly. Someone once took you to task or suggested that you were doing something wrong after you posted a pic of you astride one of your horses in full riding regalia where the horse's head was not held up, it was looking down, with the neck bent. The person suggested that this indicated the horse was being mistreated in some fashion. Just as I would never presume to tell you how to treat your animals, I suggest you leave me be as to my dealings with the TMO. I have no problem "leaving you be" but this is a forum where we exchange ideas and presumably listen to each other and, in turn, respond. I have no power over you Michael so to "leave you be" would amount to saying nothing when I have something to say based on something else you wrote. I was not telling you to cease and desist from whatever it is you are trying to do but to perhaps reflect a moment on your part in creating what you feel about MMY and the Movement today. You certainly don't have to agree with me. On the issue of the horse, his head position is one of relaxed submission and one that a trained horse is most comfortable in adopting if the rider is empathetic and the animal is physically developed for it (most particularly when it is moving). I love the fact you remembered that comment and that post from way back when. To suggest that I need to look at my gullibility in getting involved with the TMO is akin to telling a woman who was assaulted it was her fault for wearing that blouse a little too low. Or telling the victims of Bernie Maddoff that they should deal with their gullibility for letting him have their money instead of seeking redress in the courts. I don't agree with that comparison with the assaulted woman but I do in the example of Madoff. There is an accountability with regard to accepting lock, stock and barrel someone's promises. But it takes life experience and a certain maturity to understand this when confronted with a persuasive shtick. It is hypocritical of you to tell me to get over my anger at the TMO and not deal with your anger at Barry in a healthy way. Sometimes I get angry at Barry but most of the time I laugh at him. He really is such a transparent doink. I am not curious about Barry, I don't think about him when I am not on FFL and I have no agenda to "bring him down" in any way. He simply is not important to my past, present or future. So there is nothing to "get over". Once I see he can act in an honest and open way I am happy to take what he says seriously. Until then he is just so much noise. I don't suggest you do anything different than you are doing already, just that its not quite an even deal for you to tell me to do what you are unwilling to do. Even when Barry posts things that have nothing to do with you, like talking about a tv show he likes, you still take pot shots at him. May I suggest you do the same with the Movement? You aren't involved, you are not in FF or attending courses yet you wring out every last detail you can garner from those "in the know". You can't wait to hear about anyone's experience whether it be past, present or still to come if it relates to gossip or new developments in whatever doings that involve the Movement. So you and I are both 'guilty' of "potshots". I don't like Barry because he agrees with me about TM - in fact he and I disagree about certain things like he feels Marshy was legit to begin with and I am not so sure about that. I like some stuff he has to say, I find his stories about his TM days and his Rama days to be both useful to me (in terms of learning TM history) and interesting. As I have said before, Barry's use of profanity toward women is not something I agree with and wouldn't do myself (mainly cause I don't want either of my Baptist grandmothers coming out of their graves to snatch me bald headed for cussin' a woman). I take from what Barry offers here that which is useful to me and leave the rest alone, same as I do with your posts. That's fine. We all do this - take what we want and leave the rest. The difference for me is that Bawwy is not worth the ethernet he posts on/with/whatever the hell happens when stuff is 'relayed' via the internet. He has had his "get out of jail" or "Pass Go" card revoked as far as I'm concerned. He holds zero credibility with me at this moment. He is, for me, a charlatan, a bad joke. If you feel differently I really have no problem with that, just as I wouldn't care if you loved veal (which I refuse to eat) or preferred Country music (which I have a visceral vomit reflex to). You analogy of opposing Barry as your duty being the same as stopping someone from beating a dog, or mistreating a horse is an apt one. Please apply it to my dealing with the TMO. The TMO daily beats innumerable dogs and mistreats untold horses in that they use deceptive, underhanded tactics to get people to buy their wares, most of which like the vastu ved and the yagyas are a ripoff, plain and simple, and I find it as offensive and someone starving a horse or beating a dog. That's my point of view. Then you go for it. Because if you truly feel that way then I admire you for attacking whatever weak point you might find there to attack. I guess I just can't begin to relate to this. Revenge is not really my thing nor is dwelling on past hurts. But then, you would know this from my history with Robin. I have spoken at some length to Kyle Cleveland who was born and raised in the Movement - he and his brother have both broken away. Kyle married Charlotte and Michael Cain's daughter. Kyle told me his great concern is helping those who have been in the Movement see the reality of it as a using manipulative cult. In talks with him I said I was more concerned with those who are innocently curious about TM from the David Lynch advertisements. And I will do what I can to help people avoid the TMO for all the reasons I have stated before. My brother in law and sister were best friends with the Caines. Peter was Dean of Faculty and head of the Art dept. at MIU and my sister was a professor the English dept. They are still close. I think the girls were Ananda and Chandi. In an attempt to correct a few incorrect assumptions and impressions, I offer the following: I have not been angry towards the Movement for 25 years. When I left in 1987, I still wanted to go on rounding courses and "evolve" - that lasted from 1987 till the Heavenly Mountain debacle when I cut all ties to the TMO. So from the early to mid 1990's till about 2 or three years ago I had just mild disdain for Marshy and the Movement if I thought about them at all. It was after reconnecting to a former kitchen worker who recounted his story of continuing to work for the TMO at MIU for some years after I left and had experiences of unstressing that nearly killed him and turned him for some years into a cigarette addict and alcoholic, I began to reexamine TM, the TMO and Marshy. That is when I sought admittance to the rarefied airs of FFL and began to ask questions. After seeing the depth of the enormities of the TMO and Marshy, I did get quite angry at times. Now I feel generally disbelief at the crack pot beliefs that are still promoted as "science" (show me the evidence that south facing entrances create problems, please!), disdain and occasional disgust. Fighting the TMO is not my full time occupation. I have extended the offer of assistance to the lady who got TM kicked out of her son's school but she had pretty much accomplished that when I came along. I have also written one article that the TM Free folks requested be included on the TM Free Blog site after Kyle brought it to their attention. Gina Catena wanted me to include several things that further attacked the TMO and Marshy. I refused to do so since her points while perhaps valid did not really belong in the piece I had written. I have discouraged one young man from attending MUM and have shared my info, much of it gleaned from FFL about Marshy and the TMO with friends, one of whom has stopped meditating as a result, tho he is a devout Christian and had some problems that are unique to that point of view regarding Marshy and the TMO. And that was his choice. And I have said very forthrightly that if the TMO tries to get in the schools here, public or private I will meet them head on. If you Ann choose to have a let 'em do as they please attitude towards the TMO I don't fault you, but its not my choice. I hope you can choose not to fault me for my choice in the matter. Even if you choose to be angry toward me for not hating Barry, or for any other reason, I will not and do not think of you as an enemy. MJ, you have taken some time and care to have written this post. I appreciate it. I also don't fault you for what you have come to feel for the Movement. I simply question the usefulness, the ultimate productiveness of this course you are on. To question it does not invalidate it. I told you I like you. I like you even more after today. -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 4/2/14, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... <awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Self Course Fairfield To: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] Date: Wednesday, April 2, 2014, 4:18 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <mjackson74@...> wrote : you ignore your own advice every time you rail at Barry I'm talking about you MJ. If you want to talk about me instead of facing the facts about you then that speaks volumes. Railing at Bawwy is my responsibility just as it is my responsibility to stop someone from beating a dog, abusing their horse or maligning someone who is innocent. Bawwy is a blight on the landscape of FFL and for you to ignore this in favor of disregarding his assholishness merely because he agrees with you about TM then you are a shallow man indeed. My "advice" is something I believe in. I follow it to the degree to which I am capable from moment to moment. You have been railing against the Movement for, what, 25 years? I respond to Bawwy from moment to moment based on the extent of the shit he posts here. I could drop my criticism in a split second if he were to ever emerge as a genuine, honest and vulnerable human being. Until that time I will continue to spit in his ugly face. --------------------------------------------
