As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. "Too many notes," to quote the film "Amadeus."
But then, I tend to believe that talking about enlightenment is a lot like watching porn and believing that you're having sex. My bad. ________________________________ From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Thanks for posting this, Anartaxius. I have successfully downloaded the attachment, and will try to read it later today or later this weekend, when I have time to do so, and will comment if I feel I have comments to make. For now, I will say that I agree with his list of myths about enlightenment, and agree with the basic principle that they ARE myths. I do NOT hold that what people have called "enlightenment" does not exist. I believe it does, but that it is a purely subjective experience that 1) defies description, 2) defies categorization or hierarchization, 3) is no "better" or "higher" than any other experience, and 4) may not be duplicatible. By #4 I mean that it is possible IMO that every person who experiences the subjective experience that they call "enlightenment" is experiencing a *different* experience or set of experiences. They may have some similarities with what others claim to experience and call "enlightenment," but essentially they'll all be different, even though the claimants CLAIM that they're all the same. If I feel like commenting more after reading the essay, I will. If not, the above can stand as my "take" on enlightenment. I think it's an OK experience, as experiences go, but no more important or "special" than any other experience. The attempt to claim otherwise is IMO *always* an attempt to sell somebody something -- whether that "something" be a technique or membership in some supposedly "special" or "elite" lineage or group. ________________________________ From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] included below] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Some days ago emptybill posted (Lightmint vs EEG Claptrap) a quote by James Swartz. After poking around for a while I found this fellow's web site. Just after I came on FFL in 2011, yuxifero also responded to a post I had made with a link to his site. Swartz had written a book called 'How to Attain Enlightenment'. I do not think I followed up on that. But I did find a sample chapter from that book a few days ago titled 'What is Enlightenment'. This was really interesting as it is an attempt to explain enlightenment from the viewpoint of Advaita Vedanta. Of special interest to me was a series of discussions he called 'enlightenment myths'. I have attached that sample chapter to this post but would like to make brief mention of the discussions in it. It is divided into several sections, but most interest were the sub headings of the enlightenment myths. As you read these you might notice that these myths cover just about everything we find in the TM scheme, and in many other traditions as well. Swartz has a very sharp intellect and handles most of his discussion well, and takes apart these ideas one by one. Reminds me of Curtis, (and even Robin, were he not off the deep end - this is now Robin might sound if he knew what he was talking about, and was not trying to exorcise everybody, and trying to convince us he was also at one time, enlightened, but not now). 1. The Path of Experience 2. The Path of Knowledge 3. The Value of a Means of Knowledge 4. Enlightenment Myths a. No Mind, Blank Mind, Empty Mind, Stopped Mind b. No Ego, Ego Death c. Nirvana d. The Now e. Experience of Oneness f. Transcendental State g. Enlightenment as Eternal Bliss h. Levels of Enlightenment i. Enlightenment as Special Status j. Enlightenment as Energy k. Fulfillment of All Desires I think Barry might like this essay because it undermines the idea of enlightenment as giving anyone some special kind of something that makes them, well, holier than thou. Barry might disagree with the idea Swartz has about enlightenment being 'real'. I think this is as one of the finest essays on enlightenment I have ever read. Maharishi did talk of the path of experience and the path of knowledge, but the path of knowledge seems to have gotten buried in the TMO in favour of the path of experience, and especially devotion to guru as time went on. Swartz basically says the path of experience (meditation etc.) helps clear the way for enlightenment, but does not in fact result in it. At any rate I find this essay a refreshing counter to the TMO's increasing descent into endarkenment.
