--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Rick Archer > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > on 11/3/05 12:38 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > --- In [email protected], "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >> > > >> I wonder about this "meaningless sounds" business. At the > > >> preparatory lecture, I always used to say the mantras > were "sounds > > >> the effects of which are known," or "words selected for their > sound > > >> quality," or something like that. I never said, "meaningless > > >> sounds" and I wonder whether using that phrase was ever an > official > > >> instruction. It's a very unfortunate phrase, in my opinion. > > > > > > Whatever associations they may have in Hinduism, > > > as they're used in TM they're semantically > > > meaningless sounds. > > > > Meaningless, but the bija mantras are fundamentally connected with > > Devatas, > > They *are* devatas. > > and these Devatas are instrumental in producing the > > effects that result from meditating with their mantras. > > > > > I know all the "names of gods" stuff from Trancenet, > > > but that's just inaccurate. At most, they're sounds > > > that are associated with gods in Hinduism. > > > > But if you regard Hinduism as anything more than a mythological > > tradition, then you might acknowledge that it's colorful depictions > > of gods and goddesses might represent actual celestial entities who > > are powerful governors of nature's mechanics. > > Well, I have my own ideas of what they represent. > > > >But even > > > Hindus who are taught TM are told to treat the mantra > > > as pure sound during meditation (at least that's what > > > I was told by a long-time TM teacher who did a lot of > > > initiations in India way back when). > > > > Hindus who are taught TM in India are asked who their cherished > > deity is, and on that basis their mantra is chosen. > > And that contradicts what I said how? > > > > If you want to get all esoteric about it, the mantras > > > are in some sense devas, but then you have to get into > > > the whole Nama-rupa thing and how Sanskrit syllables > > > aren't symbolic, like regular language; they don't > > > *stand for* things, they *are* things. And if you're > > > going to say mantras are gods, well, you gotta first > > > believe in gods. I'm a lot happier with "impulses of > > > creative intelligence," myself. > > > > Just a Western phrase Maharishi chose to make a Hindu concept seem > > more scientific. > > Or perhaps not. Perhaps "impulses of creative > intelligence" is the more accurate description > for the abstract celestial entities or forces > which in Hinduism are metaphorically represented > by colorful gods and goddesses, and which are > actually aspects of our own consciousness. > > Remember that MMY also refers to "devata" as > "process of knowing," that which connects Knower > and known, or rather which *creates* what is > known. The Knower "knows" the known into being, > devata being the creative agency. > > I believe the mythological aspects of religions > generally are metaphors for highly abstract > components of reality--of the mechanics of > consciousness--rather than personal beings. Not > that they can't take the form of personal beings, > of course. But their essence is vastly more > abstract, I think. >
Wonderful explanation. But I wonder whether the word "metaphor" is exactly what I would employ in the above paragraph. To me it denotes something literary or fictional. There is another word I would rather use, but can't think of it (I'll know it when I see it). Perhaps "symbols"...but that still denotes something less than real. For example, the few times I have had "flashy" experiences in meditation, they have comprised what you call mythological aspects of religion...but they are experienced as very, very real...indeed, in a way, more real than waking state realities. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
