---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : you are blaming the victims and absolving the con artists and yes that includes Marshy of all responsibility, which is what Marshy and his ilk always wanted. If you don't want to see Marshy as a con artist, that is your point of view, but it is not one that I share. I am not blaming anyone. I said there takes two sides necessary to create a scam and I certainly don't blame those who get caught up in a scam for causing the scammer to be just that, a scammer. Scams can only work if you have someone to go along for the scam. Never once did I indicate that scammers should not pay some price for their lies and manipulations. Never once did I indicate anyone should roll over and play dead when they understand the extent of a scam. But what I DO say is the scamee needs to realize their part in the whole thing and take responsibility for where they went wrong. And of course bawee puts whatever spin he wants to on my life (which of course he knows dick all about) but my life is a testimony to what I just said. I "fell" for Robin's "enlightenment" and when I realized he was out of control and doing more harm then good and newspaper and radio stations and other thesis writers on cults wanted to talk to me I spoke to them. Was it revenge? Not really. Was it a way to work through the mystery and horror of those last months? Partly. Do I spend my remaining days hating and trying to get others to hate Robin? No. Was I responsible for what I did during my time around RWC? Of course. If I could do it all again would I? Absolutely. I make a non-jyotish prediction - the TMO will fall and it will fall hard - their claims are too ridiculous for the Movement to sustain itself much longer - the fall will come partly from the Movement big shots getting caught at some of their more serious crimes and it won't take but one or two veterans who are suffering from PTSD who are being shown off by the TMO as success stories to go postal for the media to say "I thought this guy was cured from doing TM?" From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 9:47 PMSubject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Damn It ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : I have spent too much time around the real true believers,esp in Fairfield and I have seen the devastation it creates in their lives. Now you can say it is their choice to be a believer, but that is the same as saying con artists like Bernie Madoff should not be blamed because his victims chose to invest their money with him.
This is partly true. It takes two to create a scam. You have to have those willing to take a chance, to trust, to perhaps take advantage of something that sounds too good to resist. Perhaps it is good to be suspicious, to be extra careful, to be less greedy, especially in the case of investing money with those who promise super duper returns. Which they did because he had created a false persona that people trusted. Marshy did the same thing. That is why people did what he said they should do to get enlightened, ultimately they did it because they trusted him. I'm not sure I can go ahead and place MMY in the same category as Madoff. I have no real opinion about MMY's motivation, I simply can't know it. I have not been any victim of TM or of the teaching. I learned some techniques, I practiced them for a certain amount of time and when I didn't want to any more I stopped. I didn't lose a fortune, I didn't go crazy and I don't find myself regretting any of it. Rounding, being celibate, doing all the absurd practices - ayurved, yagya and on and on - they did it because they trusted he was telling the truth and was an honest man. But he was not. Marshy was a liar, a con artist and a fraud on many levels. But people did not necessarily not gain anything from refraining from sex, or rounding or taking ayurveda. There are benefits from doing some of this and for some people the benefits are more useful than for others. I guarantee you, when people didn't want to do any of it any more they simply stopped. No one was holding a gun to their head and no one threatened to kill their first born if they didn't take their ayurvedic concoction or refrain from fucking their wife or husband. Yet, even when people are shown they have been ripped off, they will in their addicted state still believe in the guru. Witness the following: In 1992, Damara Bertges and Hans Gunther Spachtholz founded the European Kings Club, a "non-profit" association that rallied against big European banks and promised to help the "little guys." Investors buy a "letter," which was kind of a club share, for 1,400 swiss franc. This entitled them to 12 monthly payment of 200 swiss franc, which meant doubling their money in just a year. The European Kings Club meetings were a hoot: they sang their own anthem, and the duo made a show of pressing money into the hands of the "club members." When the scheme collapsed 2 years later, some 94,000 German and Swiss investors were bilked out of US$1 billion. In the Swiss cantons of Uri and Glarus, it was estimated that one in ten adults had fallen for the scheme. But even after authorities raided the EKC offices and captured Bertges, her investors still believed that she was their champion. When Bertges went put on trial, her "victims" applauded so loudly that the judge had to clear out the room. For defrauding people out of US$1 billion, Bertges got 7 years and Spachtholz got away with less than 5 years in jail. And this effects you precisely how? From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Damn It ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : Not totally. As has been covered in many posts here and elsewhere, the practice of the technique itself does seem to cause mental/emotional problems in many people. It is really a crap shoot as to who will benefit from TM and who will have detriment from it. The TM apologists would say "Oh, that only happens if someone has an already existing mental problem." Even though that argument sort of undermines the main gist of TM which is if you transcend through TM, you release all kinds of stress and karma and you magically get better on all levels by dipping your individual awareness into the home of all awareness. If that transcending process through TM was a fabulous as TMO claims and Marshy claimed, then it should by rights and by logic alleviate ALL suffering (which is in fact what liar Marshy claimed). That should include all forms of mental and emotional imbalances.I think he said this with the idea that enlightenment would bring this about eventually for the enlightened but the path along the way wouldn't be any picnic. The worst problems seem to occur when people live and work in TM communities and especially when they meditate endlessly on rounding courses. I have to agree with you on this - too much of anything is, well, too much. But I also cry "chicken" and "egg" here because I honestly think those who choose to engage in one activity to the exclusion of all else for periods of years and maybe decades are not particularly balanced as human beings and that goes for elite athletes as well as meditators. All of the problems that occur from TM practice were always exacerbated by the ridiculous lies and denials by Marshy and all his sycophantic course leaders.Sure people cover up and simplify things and some are simply gullible and believe what they expound on but I was not one of those who fell for all of it anyway so have a hard time feeling too much chagrin if others did and are now dissatisfied or angry. Surely most should know by now that there is no magic bullet and there will never be world peace or a disease-free planet. And there will always be fanatics and non thinkers in any walk of life. They are usually those who cling to, desperately, the idea that there is such a thing as safety, that they are part of something that is special and that their future holds a promise of some sort of nirvana or reward. From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 1:15 PMSubject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Damn It ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : As I have stated before, many times, there are those who do TM who still lead balanced lives, have good sense, don't allow themselves to be fooled by Movement bs and generally act like they have some sense. Most of these do not participate on FFL. TM becomes a problem when the practice of it helps one suspend their common sense and act like fools. Sal can still enjoy a pint and a fight which makes him a fine fellow in my book.So in the most simplistic of summaries: it comes down to the Movement and MMY and all those in his employ and not necessarily TM as a practice that you are objecting to. From: "Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:08 AMSubject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Damn It MJ and turq, since he does TM twice a day, should we "blame" it for what salyavin posts here? (-: On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 9:55 AM, "Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Nope, TM is not to blame and Jumanji was a fun movie to watch. From: "j_alexander_stanley@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Damn It He wouldn't have even needed to learn TM in order for TM to be blamed. Robin Williams was in Jumanji, which is kind of an Indianish sounding name. Bam! TM is to blame!---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote : Om jeez that is depressing news this morning about Robin Williams. He really should not have ought gone and done that. Dang. Double dang. I'll miss him. Next thing we'll learn was that Robin learned to meditate at one point and the anti-meditation lobby here will tell us here that it was all because he meditated that he killed himself. -Buck, still on the planet this morning.
