--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >  Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > In my direct
> > > > experience with MMY and SSRS, their darshan is vast
> > > > and powerful...infinite Shiva. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > An honest question and sincere point:
> > > 
> > > I am wondering what you feel from your wife's "darshan"? Or 
> > attention
> > > on the love you have for her?
> > > 
> > > The point I am trying to get at is distinguishing what comes 
from
> > > inside us, but we attribute to others, and what really comes 
from
> > > "outside".
> > > 
> > > Which is sort of silly when we ae discussing "infinite Shiva" -
- 
> > its
> > > all inside and outside.
> > > 
> > > But that sort of gets to the point. I find, that when 
focussing on 
> > a
> > > loved one, love fills you up, and all sorts of energy dynamics 
can
> > > unfold, lots of powerful stuff can happen. And one attributes 
it to
> > > the other, but its really just love within oneself unfolding.
> > > 
> > > So thats the case with "ordinary folks" (not to imply your 
wife is
> > > ordinary). 
> > > 
> > > Is it (any) different with "saints"? I know that sounds like a 
> > silly
> > > question and makes it seems I have never been in the presence 
of
> > > saints and felt powerful and wonderful things. I have. But 
still, 
> > it
> > > begs the question, how much is coming from them, how much is 
just 
> > real
> > > inner stuff bubbleing up because we are focussed on something 
that
> > > invokes love and surrender?
> > > 
> > > MMY has wonderful lectures on "you think its all coming from 
the
> > > teacher, but the teahcer does nothing, it all comes from the 
> > student.
> > > Like a resevoir does nothing, its the pipe that makes the 
> > conection.
> > > Like a golden chain .... "
> > > 
> > > And "love comes from you, not from the one you love...."
> > > 
> > > Both quote streams are related to what i am trying to get at 
with 
> > the
> > > darshan experience -- but are not 100% dead-on.
> > > 
> > > And many devotees make the (non) distinction that "here or 
there, 
> > in
> > > their physiccal presence, 10,000 miles away, the guru is aways 
> > there,
> > > full as full can be."
> > > 
> > > Has anyone figured out this "distinction" of wholeness and its
> > > "source" in saint darshan? How much is coming from the Saint?
> > >
> > Its a resonance thing. The saint is awake. When we awaken in the 
> > same way, we think it is the saint. But it isn't. Its both. Same 
> > with a loved one. Its both. Which is why as we develop, it 
doesn't 
> > much matter if it is a tree or a saint or a piece of gum or a 
dog or 
> > the morning breeze, same effect.
> > 
> > What originally made us go Wow! is pretty much everywhere. Not a 
> > whole lot of difference. More oneness, less otherness, less 
wowness, 
> > more isness...
> 
> 
> But in the case of a tree, its not really "both", the tree is not
> "awake" like a saint, it does not resonate in the same way as 
awakened
> saint. 

Same stuff.
 
> But I agree, experientially, that inanimate things, like a "tree", 
> can serve as a catalyst. I used to literally have a "tree temple" 
in a
> large park -- that I "figured", "vowed" , "decided", "intuited" 
that
> through devotion I could make the divine manifest in that very 
spot.
> Like a murti in a temple.

it sounds trite I know, but the divine manifests everywhere, 
palpably...I know what you mean though- I remember seeing the 
nervous systems and personalities and hearts of trees.
 
> 
> My above question has to do with the question of if its our "image"
> and "expectations" of the saints purity that invokes that within 
us,
> starting the energy chain and inner dynamics. 
> 
> For example, I view SBS as pure as refined glass or a diamond -- an
> almost tranlucent body that lights up like a blazing diamond from
> inner light. But I realize that may be from inner and personal
> "expectation" and imagining. And thus, really could 
be "transferred"
> to anything - and that anything could serve as a similar catalyst.
> Like my "tree".
>
If you are talking about catalysts, then saints are much better 
catalysts than trees, or unawakened people. And your perception of 
SBS (not sure who that is...) is entirely accurate, not imagined. 

I am merely saying that once the catalysts have done their work, and 
like Hagen posted earlier, we are in complete and total bondage, 
infinite surrender, complete and total freedom, then everything else 
in our universe is too. There are no longer distinctions like more 
darshan, less darshan. 

Oh, I suppose if I were to meet a saint tomorrow I would very much 
enjoy the experience, hypothethically- probably depend on if I was 
in the mood. But to be perfectly honest, it would make no difference 
to me whatsover if I ever met a saint ever...again. No desire 
anymore in that direction. No seeking, only finding, and finding and 
finding!





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