Re: [FairfieldLife] Is Astrology Science?

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 


     On Thursday, May 28, 2015 11:14 PM, Duveyoung <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> 
wrote:
   

     Anartaxius, you ignorant slut.  So, in replying to my criticism you are 
consorting with prostitutes and those of dim and unlearned intelligence? Seems 
like a good fit.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <anartaxius@...> wrote :On Wednesday, May 
27, 2015 10:44 PM, Duveyoung <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Seems to me that 
since a single photon of light hitting a dark-conditioned retina can trigger a 
change in the flow of consciousness -- a single photon could possibly be a 
tipping point's "final straw" and so, an 
infant's-personality-that's-ever-so-fragile could thereby get hard-wired into a 
"something or other."  I think we discussed this point some weeks ago. a single 
photon of light likely, on the basis of experiment, can affect the retina of 
the eye, but it is not an event the becomes conscious because the impulse does 
not get any further than this in the nervous system.  
I used "dark-conditioned retina" which I believe DOES send a full message to 
the brain about a single photon, but one or a dozen, so what?  The evidence is 
that a very small amount of light can be registered in consciousness -- which 
could be a tipping point experience.  EMPHASIS ON "COULD."  The issue is 
whether such an event in consciousness could be some sort of keystone in an 
upside down pyramid -- we know the concept "tipping point" is valid, and we 
know the infant is "brand new" and ready for "imprinting like a baby bird" 
MAYBE.  See the word "maybe" there?
Yes, but belief is not evidence. And the evidence of the experiments shows that 
while it is likely a single photon could affect the retina, considerably more 
photons are required for the signal to get sent from the retina further up the 
processing chain. There is a difference between a 'small amount of light' and a 
single photon. So far there has never been an experimental result where a 
single photon was noticed. In fact scientifically 'an event in consciousness' 
is undefined because there is no scientific definition of consciousness.

I am aware of the 'tipping point' concept (the writings of Malcolm Gladwell), 
but if there is no evidence that a single photon can have effects to the extent 
you would like to believe. You seem to be looking for some frail excuse to have 
jyotish somehow work even when your own experience demonstrates it failed.
Now if you had an infant just at birth, don't you think all the activity 
surrounded by the birth would have a much much larger impact on the child's 
experience? We encounter things all life long that appear to tip us in one 
direction or another. And many things that have more mass and energy than a 
single photon impact us everyday so looking for the tiniest, least effective 
impact to be the tipping point seems like a wasted opportunity and clearly on 
the borderlands of irrationality.
Of course, it's hard to imagine a research scenario that could measure such 
thing.  But I mention this as a viable concept for this discussion, because of 
the research on the "dirty water that is purified by radiation" -- "purified" 
means anything-not-water gets separated out.  I'll link below to the research, 
as I have done several times here at FFL, 
You did not link to the research, you linked to a YouTube video. That is not 
scientific research. Pollack supposedly published this research in a low 
quality on-line journal called Water, but it turns out, what was uploaded was 
not a scientific paper, but a page listing the table of contents of his book, 
purchasable elsewhere. So no published research at all, just advertising. This 
is the abstract for the article, which is not an abstract for research but a 
sales pitch:

So what? Do I need to do a Steve-Martin-EXCUSE ME? for using "research?"  Give 
me a  break -- it's clear  that the "error" you underline is not germane to the 
discussion -- do you admit this?  Are you not just a little bit happy to get in 
here and show me up as a less-than-top-notch-thinker?  Aaaaaand, if I'm not 
top-notch, who the fuck are you to try to rub my nose in it?  Is someone 
smarter than you chafing your ass and I'm the only one you can take it out on?  
Do you go around besting children at trivia games or what?  Your attitude 
belongs on a PhD orals-exam -- not here at FFL for Christ's sake.
You seem to be attracted to bad science. If you are using 'research' to support 
your contention, then certainly it is germane to the discussion. In the manner 
of your reply you seem to be underlining the words 'less-than-top-notch 
thinker' with a broad brush. We do have such conversations on FFL all the time. 
You are just not here very often.

 The video shows that research was done and that there's probably some 
paperwork to back it up.  Did I say I have PROOF?  The video SUGGESTS that 
light somehow helps water to purify.  It shows actual experiments being 
conducted.  The guy is legit, credentialed, and what the video shows is very 
interesting, and I think it needs more follow up.  These are concepts that fit 
into this conversation -- it doesn't matter if the concepts are being promoted 
by a book-selling professor.  I maintain that jyotish is tantalizingly 
supported by this video in that every cell in the human body is being 
irradiated constantly by a host of waves of every ilk.  It seems to me that 
some of the surfaces found in the body will be thereby helped to purify 
themselves and keep functions at peak performance.  Light matters at a very 
subtle level IT SEEMS.
The video implies research was done, it doesn't mean that research is any good, 
or that the scientist was able to publish his results in a journal, which I 
conclude after a search, he was unable to do, and he picked a low quality 
journal that does not appear to have any kind of peer review by fellow 
scientists. And there are crackpots that have credentials, but whose work is 
considered useless by his/her peers. You have not specified here how water is 
purified. Water by itself is pure. On Earth most water has dissolved minerals, 
and various kinds of particulates, and micro-organisms. Sometimes bigger things 
too, like fish. Most of this can be filtered out. Ultraviolet radiation can 
kill micro-organisms, and there are various ways to filter out particulates and 
chemicals such as distillation and reverse osmosis, cation and anion exchange 
resins and so forth.
Having experienced jyotish failing so badly, what possible reason could you 
have for wanting it to somehow work? It has a ridiculous concept, no 
experimental proof, unexplained influences. It is a theory for the garbage heap 
from more ignorant times. At best it is a psychological crutch for the gullible.
'The following paragraphs are reproduced from the website of the publisher [1]. 
Professor Pollack takes us on a fantastic voyage through water, showing us a 
hidden universe teeming with physical activity that provides answers so simple 
that any curious person can understand. In conversational prose, Pollack lays a 
simple foundation for understanding how changes in water’s structure underlie 
most energetic transitions of form and motion on earth.' 
The citation footnote [1] in the abstract did not refer to any information 
either, not being a link or reference to anything else on the page.    
So I'm a lousy student.  I didn't use footnotes.  FUCK YOU.  Google this shit 
yourself -- it's got to be out there. I couldn't find it, and I did 'Google 
this shit'. It is evident you are a lousy student.
Not that that's a proof of astrology's main axiom, but that that indicates that 
light is VERY impacting at the subtlest of levels.  

There is very very much proof about instant printing.  We see birds immediately 
attach "that's my parent" to anything that moves when it is first born.  We 
know this kind of global psychological "hardening" is seen across the 
biological spectrum.  

Us human beings too?  Why not?  We know that trauma can do this.  Why not the 
first light that floods the newborn's eye?  

I paid good bucks to eleven jyotishi-types.  Nothing came true, no one "nailed 
me," I was never warned about something, and no insights into what I'd been in 
the past, and they all majorly disagreed with each other.  And all of them were 
consulted EXACTLY WHEN I NEEDED ADVICE THE MOST -- my life troubles during that 
time were the WORST of my life, but no jyotish person warned or saw this. 
So don't try to sell me any more jyotish, but don't toss it out with the 
western astrology bathwater.  I think the "light is synchronous" (not causal)  
concept has traction.  It's just that science is not up to examining it, and 
probably won't be for another 100 years. 
A good experiential observation that jyotish/astrology is hokum.

"Hokum" -- this is merely name calling.  With one word you dismiss 10,000 years 
of belief and practice that was so revered that father taught son for thousands 
of years to MEMORIZE the ved verses about the concepts.  Shame the fuck on you. 
 We don't know.  We don't know.  Why do you have such certainty in the face of 
such a paucity of good research by modern science on these concepts?  YOU DON'T 
KNOW.  All you're saying is "it's stupid, man, and so are you if you believe 
it."  That's your tone......don't deny it.  This is the rotten core of FFL -- 
putting down anyone who is in the least flawed instead of advancing an argument 
for clarity's sake.
Hokum is name calling, but it is also descriptive, as it is a synonym for 
'nonsense'. A Population believing something that is wrong for 10,000 years 
still means it's wrong. It is just is evidence that delusion is persistent and 
contagious.
There is such a thing as common sense. If I told you I could throw a bowling 
ball into orbit around the Earth with my right arm, and that thousands of 
people believe I could do this because I wrote it in the 'Book of the Bowling 
Ball' which has the status of scripture, would you believe me? Just because 
somebody wrote something down, or told a story that was orally transmitted for 
many generations doesn't mean a thing unless it can be demonstrated it has some 
genuine effect. You can dismiss any amount of belief if you can show it is 
wrong. And there may be simple reasons why something is likely to be wrong, so 
it is not always necessary to engage in long precise experiments. For those 
things important to oneself, you have to find out for yourself, rather than 
taking someone's word for it.
Pollack has tenure at the U. of Washington. He published that ad of his in his 
own journal. He is editor of the journal in which his supposed research was 
supposedly published but wasn't. He was too lazy to publish a paper even in his 
own journal. That alone is enough to cast suspicion. He seems to be a lonely 
island in the world of science as far as his water ideas.
I do think you are stupid to believe these things. Why are they important to 
you? You seem to be rather volatile; that does not help with rational thinking. 
As for what I know, the only thing I know for sure is there is existence. The 
details are hypotheses awaiting refutation, for basically science tries to 
prove its ideas wrong. Those that survive the process get to live for another 
day, at least for now.
You might do better over on the Peak, there is less rationality there, but you 
probably could not get away with writing this way over there.
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