From: "authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: Alex, can you post a question to the
forum for me?
This post is almost entirely irrelevant to the current situation on FFL.
Moreover, it has quite a few inaccuracies.
There is no reason that anyone's equanimity should be deliberately tested by
trying to upset them. It may happen naturally in the course of a discussion or
argument, but otherwise it's just an excuse to indulge one's aggression and
treat them badly.
If your equanimity is tested and you fail, then you realise you have more work
to do in that regard. Before I learned TM, most of what I was engaged in was
all about button pushing and discovering the extent of one's conditioning. It
can be valuable. This feature of spiritual technology is heavily suppressed in
the TM movement.
Turq's posts were frequently poorly reasoned. He was a flashy writer, and this
tended to be deceptive: one assumed he was saying something insightful because
one was dazzled by the language. But if you looked more closely, you found that
he was so focused on showing off his language skills that he didn't pay much
attention to working out his ideas properly. Also, he often got his facts
wrong, inadvertently or otherwise.
Turq's post were almost always exaggerated for effect. Maharishi always
exaggerated too to emphasise points. And in discussing metaphysical aspects of
spirituality, there are no facts, so it does not matter if you make a mistake,
everyone is dreaming in that regard.
I'm not sure anybody cares which "R's" you would or would not have removed.
Tell that to those that argued with them, or had to wade through their posts.
Doug has not yet demonstrated a tyrannical side. As Alex confirmed, he has not
deleted any posts. He has "deleted" two posters, both for more than sufficient
reason. He has not moderated any "contrary views" except for one slip with
Turq's nasty post about David Lynch (which has not been deleted). Every new
moderator, as far as I'm concerned, gets to make a couple of mistakes at first.
That's how they learn what it's about.
I suspect that is only because Rick is looking over his shoulder.
Doug has been under withering fire from Turq for *years*. It's no wonder he has
"personal enmity"; he wouldn't be human if he didn't. He's stood up under it
remarkably well. But Turq handed him a justification to expel him on a silver
platter when he declared himself not subject to Doug's authority as moderator.
What was he *thinking*?? How could there have been any question in his mind as
to why he'd been denied access to the forum?
Doug is a rather strange persona in my opinion, constant spamming, often a
complete lack of original thinking in those repetitive whining post that went
on for all those years. With Turq gone, I am interested though in seeing if he
comes out into the sun. There have always been signs he can think independently
of his TMO conditioning, and that the TMO has essentially excommunicated him
perhaps it will emerge.
Doug's "religious persona" is hardly medieval. Nineteenth century, maybe. I
vote for giving him a chance and a bit of benefit of the doubt, maybe even
helping him out rather than continually nastily criticizing him.
That was an exaggeration, 19th century is a more accurate characterisation. Of
course it is no longer the 19th century either, its a 21st century persona with
historical influences.
Did anyone argue that personal attacks always involved profanity? Personal
attacks do not require profanity.
Did anyone argue that personal attacks were always gratuitous? Personal attacks
are often a response to a personal attack, they can be a reaction.
Did anyone argue that likes and dislikes have something to do with the truth?
What do likes and dislikes have to do with truth, other than if you like the
idea of truth, it might point the mind in looking to find out?
As for your quotes, at this point they're straw men. Nobody's freedom of speech
has been taken away, nobody has tried to suppress others' opinions or ideas,
nobody has censored anything.
Turq is not here so he can no longer speak freely here, his opinions have been
now suppressed. He has been censored. So has 'R', removed by Rick. To me 'R'
was like a swarm of mosquitoes; certainly you remember when he began to focus
on you.
And your final paragraph is gratuitously insulting to Doug. Insulting, perhaps,
but not gratuitous. Doug is not a free thinker, not a secular humanist, I think
if he did not have Rick looking over his shoulder here, we would see the real
persona unchained.
But you know, none of the interplay here is really personal, we are just text
on a computer screen. We are trading our ideas about what we think, our ideas
about what others are, there is no flesh and blood interaction, no real
personal interaction. Of course where spiritual ideas are concerned, flesh and
blood interaction in real life tends to spread the flesh and blood all over the
battlefield, but it's not personal, it is for the glory of god, or whatever.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <anartaxius@...> wrote :
Getting your buttons hammered is a test of equanimity, which fails miserably
with many, many meditators. Tuquoiseb was pretty intense this way, but also
posted well reasoned posts and other interesting things. He was not a one note
guy. I found authfriend just as annoying eventually as I did Turq in the
beginning. Unlike the irrelevant posts of 'R' and the rather insanely abusive
posts of another 'R' a few years ago. In fact those two 'Rs' were the only ones
I would have removed from FFL myself were I in control. There was a third 'R'
whom I found rather creepy, but he had reasoned if sometimes devious
argumentation, so even though I did not care for him, I would not have removed
him because I disagreed with him. Turq provided a strong pole for the
non-theistic path of spirituality, and I miss the authfriend/turq battles of
the past. Intellectually Turq is far more well rounded than our farmer turned
tyrant, who I feel does not have the mental flexibility to deal with strong
contrary views. His own posting has been spammy in mostly non-interactive, and
until now, mostly a complaint.
We should note that personal attacks also do not necessarily involve profanity
and can take on a much more subtle quality, and in this light everyone one here
has engaged in that in my observation. It is very easy to slip from arguing
against an idea and aiming at the person. Our moderator seems to have had a
personal enmity against Turq and others opposed to his medieval religious
persona. I for one vote for removing him as moderator.
Also not all personal attacks here are gratuitous. What do you say if you are
arguing against a point you regard as stupid? That implies the person holding
that view is also stupid because they are holding it. And the converse is true,
the person hold that stupid belief thinks it is true and holds the other in
contempt for disagreeing, thinking it is stupid. Likes and dislikes have
nothing to do with truth. Truth transcends even the gods, or however many you
are pretending there are (the range is 0 or more).
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they
do not want to hear.—George Orwell
If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like
sheep to the slaughter. —George Washington
Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid
shit.—Jim C. Hines
Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of
opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of
increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all
its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.—Harry S. Truman
My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended
against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone
who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line, and kiss my
ass.—Christopher Hitchens
I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the
people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent
and sudden usurpations.—James Madison
Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to
conscience, above all liberties.—John Milton
Because if you don't stand up for the stuff you don't like, when they come for
the stuff you do like, you've already lost.—Neil Gaiman
If there's one American belief I hold above all others, it's that those who
would set themselves up in judgment on matters of what is "right" and what is
"best" should be given no rest; that they should have to defend their behavior
most stringently. ... As a nation, we've been through too many fights to
preserve our rights of free thought to let them go just because some prude with
a highlighter doesn't approve of them.—Stephen King
Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all
subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us....
The framers of the constitution knew human nature as well as we do. They too
had lived in dangerous days; they too knew the suffocating influence of
orthodoxy and standardized thought. They weighed the compulsions for restrained
speech and thought against the abuses of liberty. They chose liberty.—William
O. Douglas
Most people do not really want others to have freedom of speech, they just want
others to be given the freedom to say want they want to hear. —Mokokoma
Mokhonoana
Religion grants its adherents malign, intoxicating and morally corrosive
sensations. Destroying intellectual freedom is always evil, but only religion
makes doing evil feel quite so good. —Philip Pullman
It is the rare fortune of these days that one may think what one likes and say
what one thinks. —Tacitus
The moment you say that any idea system is sacred, whether it's a religious
belief system or a secular ideology, the moment you declare a set of ideas to
be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought
becomes impossible. —Salman Rushdie
In the Hindu religion, one cannot have freedom of speech. A Hindu must
surrender his freedom of speech. He must act according to the Vedas. If the
Vedas do not support the actions, instructions must be sought from the Smritis,
and if the Smritis fail to provide any such instructions, he must follow in the
footsteps of the great men. He is not supposed to reason. Hence, so long as you
are in the Hindu religion, you cannot expect to have freedom of thought.—B.R.
Ambedkar
Why is contemporary China short of works that speak directly? Because we
writers cannot speak directly, or rather we can only speak in an indirect
way.... Why does contemporary China lack good works that critique our current
situation? Because our current situation may not be critiqued. We have not only
lost the right to criticise, but the courage to do so.... Why is modern China
lacking in great writers? Because all the great writers are castrated while
still in the nursery. —Murong Xuecun
The only weapon that we have in our hands this evening is the weapon of
protest. That's all. —Martin Luther King Jr.
Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error. —Thomas
Jefferson
A central lesson of science is that to understand complex issues (or even
simple ones), we must try to free our minds of dogma and to guarantee the
freedom to publish, to contradict, and to experiment. Arguments from authority
are unacceptable.—Carl Sagan
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read.... It ain't
what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure
that just ain't so.—Mark Twain
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth.—John F. Kennedy
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.—Abraham Lincoln
And you our dear moderator, are still far from the unbounded freedom of mind
these illustrious gentlemen represent. Your sanctimonious 'Buck' persona is
beginning to bleed through. You are too cowardly to face the arguments people
present against your idea of reality.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote :
Ya know, Sal, I think it's pretty simple:
Avoid gratuitous personal attacks and it works out pretty well.
Avoid the temptation to push someone's buttons for the sole purpose, of
declaring, "Ha, I pushed your buttons"
And then, if possible, try to avoid a commentary, or small essay, on the
virtues of having your buttons pushed, and the tremendous opportunity it
presents for personal growth, supplying statistics and definitions to buttress
this position.
That's my take. (-:
Otherwise, have at it!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote :
Our new moderator is a dipshit vedic nazi and a partisan moronDoug for being a
snivelling coward
All insults that give grounds for your very own dismissal Sal!
Kind of the idea. I'm just underlining that I won't be diluting myself at all.
I'm happy as I am, I don't want to be assimilated into any group mind again.
I will happily justify every word if our overlord decrees it though. But the
funny thing is I'm most mild mannered usually but when some "authority" tells
me I can't swear I instantly start swearing like trooper. Must be the anarchist
in me. Most of me actually. We shall fight on the beaches etc...
And here I thought I would be the first to go - I reckon Bucky wants to keep
tabs on me so he will know where to direct the drones.
I just wrote a huge and brilliant [ahem] reply to this MJ, justifications,
explanations about the dangers of censorship, an analysis of why people have a
problem with us apostates, some cool quotes, some thoughts on what made FFL so
good in the past, I spent best part of an hour on it and then I pressed the
wrong key and deleted the whole thing myself. Doh! No moderator required....
And I'm out of time today. If I still have an account on Sunday I'll have
another go. I've a feeling the topic won't go away!
It's protest time in London town tomorrow. Another injustice that needs to be
sorted out is our government of capitalist shitheads, so it's a good march and
shout then a demo in Hyde park. Not that anyone listens and it won't even make
the news but when you care about something you have to speak up or they assume
you don't care. To the barricades!
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