---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :
Thanks, this posting is really sensitive to some issues and respectfully said. Though, there are a lot of folks around here who do in fact have [objective] experience of 'ritam' aka, the 'siddhis-like' in practice or formula otherwise by Patanjali with cultivated transcendence as MMY brought out. One could feel sorry for you and others that this was not your experience. “I have given you the key to the universe and you want an advanced technique?” -MMY May 1977 Compelled by enough spiritual experience on their own the meditating community of Fairfield, Iowa is proly not going to go away any time soon. I am going to copy out some of this posting as summary to add to material of particular experiences with the culture of the movement being collected by a sub-committee of the Mental Health Alliance as data-points about people's cultural experience related to mental health. It is progressing well. With enough data-points one can see to develop and implement better 'actionable' policy in facilitating organization to the benefit of individuals and the well-being of the organization. Metrics count that way in data, -JaiGuruYou! I'm delighted that is of interest to you. I'm fascinated by the problem of mental ill health as it's so debilitating when it strikes and undermines your ability to live your life how you want. A contented experience of our inner self is fundamental to good living and when that goes wrong in some way it means your entire life has gone wrong. I'm interested in what problems people in the FF meditating community present to their doctors, whether it's things like symptoms that develop after learning TM or TMSP, or whether it's that they learned TM to help cope with pre-existing problems and it didn't work. And also the prevalence of certain conditions and whether they match the distribution of similar conditions in the wider country. For instance, it used to be that doctors in the UK would get more depressed housewives suffering lack of self esteem and anxiety about life. Since then there's been greater equality between sexes and decent career prospects so that doesn't happen so much. These days the greatest problem doctors are presented with is socially alienated young men. The suicide rate of men under 30 in the UK is horrifically high. Another thing I'm interested in is whether a community that is based on shared beliefs and a common goal has fewer cases of depression caused by the same feelings of social isolation? But that's more a sociological question and probably not within the scope of what you are doing. One of the things I think will have to look closely at is the TM model of stress and stress release. I think that it's wildly inaccurate and isn't even a simplified version of what does happen. The trouble I'm sure you have is there are going to be a lot of people in the TMO who learned TM to self-prescribe a hopeful cure for things that have plagued them their whole lives. A reason it falls down is that the sort of mental process that causes, say, anxiety attacks isn't a "stress" it isn't something that can be meditated away using Marshy's model of "stress" getting trapped in the nervous system and being simply released by deep relaxation. There are many causes of anxiety states but as an example; I knew a purusha guy who learned TM because he was extremely shy with girls - to the point of panic attacks when alone in a room with one. He thought, and I doubt he was alone, that if he spent a few years in this deepest state this "stress" would get released and his anxiety would normalise. It didn't of course, because anxiety like his isn't a "stress" even thought it is stressful. Problems like his are caused by picking up signals in childhood that turn out not to be useful when we grow up. Maybe his parents were embarrassed about sex and he picked up on it and unconsciously saw it as something to feel guilty about. Upon reaching his teenage years he would be overcome by conflicting desires and the learned responses that his brain tells him are correct because that is the only thing it knows to do, but actually they cause tremendous fear. There are plenty of people who tell you they know how to deal with things like this but the only real way I've come across is by understanding the purely physical process of an anxiety attack and then gradually confronting the thing that triggers the problem. This works because when it's making you anxious your brain is trying to help you by repeating the response it learned to provided last time. It does this with everything you learn just to stop you having to concentrate when driving a car for instance. So when you start a process of retraining this system you learn that all you've got is some unhelpful programming, the brain doesn't discriminate between what is good and bad for you it's concern is just to act in the way it was taught. It doesn't learn to do something different just because you don't like the results of what it has picked up throughout your life. In fact, anxiety states get worse the longer they go unchallenged because another thing the brain does is remember what was happening last time you were stressed and when that environment is recognised again it makes you anxious again and simply because it tries to recreate what state you were in last time without realising that you weren't happy with it. I'm just scratching the surface of anxiety and how and why it develops here, it's a fascinating and entirely natural process that we all have as part of our evolution but it just gets carried away sometimes and can invade your entire life if you don't learn how to deal with it. BTW This model of personality development covers a lot of seemingly different conditions too. There are many different components to our conscious experience and most of them are unconscious and working away without us being aware of them, and they all work brilliantly but only with what information they are provided with. The brain doesn't see good or bad when it learns is probably the best point to think about, some things just aren't useful to us. This piece is a bit rushed as I'm trying to encapsulate a lot into a readable space but will expand on things if you like and if you think they don't make enough sense. I suspect the first time you come across this way of looking at the brain it may seem like the most unlikely nonsense but it does work as testable model and as a starting point for finding a cure for a lot of problems. Note I never say "mind" as I'm not even remotely convinced the mind exists as a separate thing, we are machines and mental ill health is the proof of this, it's symptoms are inescapable and reliable and even predictable given a set of circumstances. I see a huge gulf between the TM model and this modern mental health understanding. But can TM help at all in these anxiety state situations? It depends on the severity of the symptoms and how long they have been present. One way it's good is in how it breaks a cycle of thinking or takes you out of your social circle into a different scene and the change in pressure when apart from trigger events can give you breathing space. Some few people are transformed by TM - I've known a couple myself - but most aren't, most get a soothing effect for a while and a reduction in symptom severity but how long does it last? I could make a case that it's a form of tranquiliser in that it reduces anxiety symptoms and gives us enough extra freedom to make better decisions with the debilitating effects of adrenalin which is the main problem these days. Whether it's enough depends on how afflicted you are, fr some yes, others no. Interestingly, if you use TM to cope with anxiety it can make you feel worse because it never quite gets to the bottom of it and you get to a loop of going on endless courses hoping for the final cure but it never comes, which is depressing. I know people like this. When I worked at the academy I got to know a lot of people wel and discussed problems like this. It was one of the things that made me wonder whether we are on the right track. I get a lot of e-mails from the TMO featuring some micro-celeb with a quote about how amazing it is and how it solves all their problems and gives them energy, all the things I used to say when I started but I don't feel that way any more. I wonder how many of them will be like me or like the majority that quit when it becomes obvious they aren't getting what was advertised on the tin? Or remain cheerleaders like David Lynch and you perhaps? I'd like to see data on how many drop out of FF or the TMSP generally but I remember that Marshy would permit research into anything "negative". But data is vital whether it's confirms what you want it to or not, if you want to understand something that is. Good to see that's changed, best of luck with it. Ooops, that turned into a bit of an essay but it's still just the tip of a fascinating iceberg. I hope any of this waffle makes some sort of sense to you, it might just be too new a way of looking at things at first glance. I can expand on it if you find it of interest. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <salyavin808 writing in pink/red?:> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <s3raphita@...> wrote : Re "I did it [TMSP] religiously for 10 years though and was never happier than when I quit.": Well no one could claim you didn't give it a fair shot. Yes indeed. The first problem with quitting is that once you've brought the dream that meditating leads to enlightenment then doing less meditation means you must get there slower right? Beliefs like that sink in deep and it can take a while to get to the bottom of where the guilt comes from but the TMO is steeped in it. It's only when you live among them that the majority worldview takes hold. How we learn things is a funny process, it isn't just a case of an idea coming in and we see the superior wisdom of it, there's a deliberation process where we have to convince ourselves that the new idea is more correct than our previous mental defaults. To do this usually we have to fall back on previous assessment strategies and work out whether we have found a better way of seeing things. It's a lot of work. In a basically closed group it's easier because other people around you having strong opinions helps a process of acceptance just to fit in or for the sake of a quiet life and we override some of our usual intellectual approach. Having a new and profound experience to explain makes this process even easier because of the ready packaged set of profound sounding beliefs with all sorts of triggers for quality like them being "old" or "eastern" and to accept that as superior you have to have accepted the idea that ancient man had a better understanding of him self and the world that we've lost in our hurried and confusing modern world. It all feeds off each other. I'm not just trying to excuse myself for doing something for so long that wasn't doing me any good, it's just that I'd lost the way of self-assessment that I'd usually apply. This stuff is powerful, a lot of people never get out of the beliefs they've adopted. Some will insist that they've still got the superior worldview and that I'm a quitter and any criticism of them or the organisation that inadvertently brainwashed us all marks me as an "apostate". Anyway, after 10 years of this superior spiritual development I was stressed, withdrawn and in need of psychological help. But interestingly I had no idea about any of that and assumed I was on the "fast track to enlightenment" and didn't even blame "unstressing" as I hadn't realised my life had changed for the worst. Kiddology is another powerful force that's tricky to become aware of. One thing I've often wondered about the TM program is how TM teachers or "checkers" could be really sure that their pupils were doing the whole thing right. I recall a story of MMY once realising that a high-ranking member of the TMO and close associate hadn't been meditating correctly and giggling about it. Well, it's supposed to be really easy. The thing you have to watch is not interfering with it by getting frustrated at all the thoughts or lack of clear experience. If you feel slightly better after than you did before they consider it a success. But with the "flying" sidhi program it's different: either you are hopping or you aren't. Do those who fail to take off suffer humiliating feelings of being losers and second-class citizens of the Age of Enlightenment? Oh yes. The people on my "flying" course who didn't take off were bitterly frustrated about it and saw themselves as failures. One girl I knew quit the whole thing in disgust and really held it against us that we'd got it. Still does actually. But I was one of the last to get it so I know how she felt. I would have felt most pissed off if it hadn't worked. All rather quaint to look back on. It was good though, the first time you hop about, and it's powerful, it's like finding the part of the brain that usually transcends was only going part of the way and suddenly it seems to detach itself completely and you see your body and mundane thoughts as a totally separate thing, it's like a better glimpse of infinity than the ones that convinced you before that you were seeing infinity. That should teach you something about the physical nature of the psychological components of the mind. I still think the process of developing that inner eye will have benefits for consciousness research. Basic reductionism will work here in the sense that taking something apart gives you a better idea of how it works that you can't see usually... I just don't think it will reveal what the TM beliefs as still championed by Kings Tony and Hagelin claim it will. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <s3raphita@...> wrote : Re "No. However the real purpose of many of the yoga asanas is to prepare one to sit in either half-lotus or full lotus.": Thanks. But don't you have to adopt full- or half-lotus to do the "hopping" sidhi? And if a TM teacher hadn't taken the sidhi courses wouldn't he/she be sending out a message to newbies that those advanced courses aren't such a big deal? There used to be a few that didn't do the TMSP, some for religious reasons! But for a long time it's been a requirement that TM teachers have to do the TMSP. And they they don't get the recertification that is required for them to be able to teach "legally" now too. I never heard it said that a bad message was the reason but if the question arose it would be a difficult one to answer as meditators get this idea that it's some amazing mystery that gets revealed to you and that the "sidha's" are worthy of their higher status. It would be a poor show if a teacher didn't buy into the whole package I suspect. I can remember having TMSP described to me and wanting it desperately but wondering if I could cope with all that powerful programme! I can also remember the disappointment when I learned what it was all about. I did it religiously for 10 years though and was never happier than when I quit. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote : On 07/06/2015 04:32 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re "Would like to try meditating there though - nice and quiet when you get to an isolated spot.": I take it you can do the full lotus posture. I never got beyond the sitting-in-a-chair stage. Do you have to be able to do the cross-legged bit to qualify as a teacher of TM? No. However the real purpose of many of the yoga asanas is to prepare one to sit in either half-lotus or full lotus. I see there's a book showing how to master the position. Re the fall-out from the Greek fiasco: I'd wager serious money that it ends up with the Fed having to supply lines of credit to Europe! Another Marshall Plan and we'll see if Europe's politicians can get it right this time around . . . ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : How could you do TMSP on the beach? Inflatable life raft or some such? LOL, no this was long before my life as a TMer. Would like to try meditating there though - nice and quiet when you get to an isolated spot. The trouble with sitting still on a beach is that insects find you, there are some mighty big and fast spiders out there, not conducive to deep relaxation. What we need is one of these: Could go yogic flying down the beach, that'd raise some eyebrows! From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 6, 2015 5:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Acropolis Now! The Greeks vote for an end to the "austerity" politics that the EU and IMF have imposed on them since they had to be rescued from bankruptcy. Be interesting to see what happens next, some of them might have to delay retirement past the age of 50, and other horrors. They should never have been allowed to join the Euro anyway, all these poor countries playing on a level field with Germany and France, it was bound to end in tears. So they might as well get it over with and go back to the Drachma. But with all money connected worldwide we'll all feel the effects of a break-up in the Euro. Interestingly the UK has similar levels of public debt, the difference with us is our creditors still think we might be able to pay it back if we destroy more public services and sell the remains to the private sector so the people we owe money to can make even more out of us. It's all gone horribly wrong somewhere, the banks wreck society and have to be bailed out by the government who say they don't have that sort of money lying around so the banks say don't worry, we'll lend it to you. £1.5 trillion later and we still don't know what's going to be required to sort it out. But pity the Greeks, their biggest export is strained yoghurt and there's only a few of them who pay tax, the rest work for the government.... I had the best summer ever living on beaches on Greek islands, I got all Jason and the Argonauts cooking fish and potatoes over an open fire every night. Once a week we'd go to a taverna and drink in the culture with dancing and ouzo then watch the stars come out over the sea. All rather excellent. I'd do it again in a heartbeat but I don't know if it's still possible now everything is Euro-legal. Are people allowed to just sleep rough on beaches anywhere? Sleep on the decks of ferries to save money? Loads of European kids used to do it for a cheap summer holiday in paradise, nowadays most are too worried about how dossing about will look on their CV's. Fucking politicians ruin everything..
