---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <authfriend@...> wrote ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote :
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <authfriend@...> wrote : It's quite amazing that both salyavin and Curtis, intelligent as they are, are still complaining loudly about the imaginary notion that Doug is out to ban people who express negative opinions of TM. It doesn't matter how many people tell them what Ann does below (highlighted in red); they simply can't "hear" it: The problem on FFL has not been criticism of TM, it's been gross incivility and misrepresentation, primarily by TM critics toward TM supporters. That's what Doug was appointed by Rick to correct, and so far that's what he's done by bouncing three of the guilty parties. If Doug starts to censor negative opinions of TM, you're not just going to hear complaints from the TM critics; TM supporters won't stand for it either. Me: When I was studying Brazilian Jiu Jitsu we used to use a trick to get someone to extend their arm so we could lock it and win the match by forcing them to tap out. When we got on top of them we would push on their throat. This would cause a reflex from them to try to push us away by extending their arm. So to attack the arm we went for the neck. This is what made is such an intellectual sport, like body chess. You and I are interpreting what happened that lead to Barry and Michael getting the boot. By hitting Barry with an outrageous accusation of violating the Yahoo guidelines by criticizing David Lynch, Barry reflexively extended his arm. It was an outrageous claim and a trumped up charge and it inspired an emotional response from Barry about Buck's unsuitability as a moderator in the context of an appeal to Rick to stop him before he did what he ended up doing. NEW MATERIAL STARTS HERE: A: Gee, and this after your lecture about not getting emotional when badmouthed. Me: I am not sure what you are referring to here. I didn't say that Barry was forced to react in that way, it was his choice. I was making a case that it was predictable given the outrageous charges of saying something bad about Lynch. Buck and Barry know how each other tend to post. A: Barry could have made his objections known with civility; he chose not to. Me: We agree on this. A: Sorry, but "reflex" doesn't cut it in this context, and you wouldn't propose or accept it as an excuse for someone whose views you didn't share losing it on an Internet forum. Me: If you are calling me on the imprecision of the analogy if we focus on the idea of a "reflex", implying that Barry HAD to get all uppity with his new master, I concede your point. The analogy is not good as stated. And if by implication my point unfairly made it seem as if Barry was forced, that would be wrong. I believe it was calculated either by foresight or opportunism by Buck who has had a goal for years to clean Barry off his forum. The analogy realigns again if I include that we trained ourselves to have unnatural reactions so we did not thrust out our arms when someone pushed on our necks. Then we learned how to bait our opponent by sticking out our arm and when they predictably went for the arm, we cold reverse the position by knowing where they would move. The exchange between Barry and Buck had all the elements of two opponents giving their best move. And since ref Rick wasn't looking, Buck won the match. (I get it that you would disagree with that parting shot.) END It is not as if Buck has not been very clear about his view of speaking ill of the TM teaching. He has spent years and pretty tirelessly promoted the idea that he views it as on a par with terrorism. After having labeled people who left TM as quitters and other terms mostly used in religious contexts, he has weighed in on free speech. He is not a fan. Drone strikes were used as images to express his opinion about apostates. So it kind of makes sense that people who were in his target demo would feel the laser sight, and low and behold, (lo and behold = look and see) he got the two most vocal critics of TM off the site. Coincidence? Not for me. The two most vocal were also the two most uncivil. Some of the worst offenders of this new policy moved to another site before we could really test if this rule would be selectively enforced or not. Actually the three who were bounced did. None of the others who have shown up there have been big offenders. (Well, maybe Edg.) Salyavin is still here as well as there. So with all the civility appropriate to the new FFL: I believe that your opportunity to stand up for the principle of free speech here was missed in your sense of personal satisfaction that an old rival got canned. Yeah, you said that before. Wishful thinking. Too bad you haven't got a better argument than one based on mind-reading. Your view requires you to ignore what Buck has already written about ad nauseam as the prelude to how he has actually used his new found power. It does not so require unless one leads to the other, which it hasn't so far. As I said, if Doug starts banning people for their negative opinions of TM rather than incivility, you'll hear from TM supporters too. But he's innocent until proven guilty, by me. Seems to me you've convicted him before he's committed any crimes as moderator. From a previous discussion of ours, I was able to locate the email from Rick where he states clearly that Buck had been bugging him for years to let him clean up the group. All the time he was posting those tirades about critics being terrorists he was bugging Rick to implement the very plan he has carried out. Rick was concerned that Buck would show up instead of Doug. Rick told me that Buck would be moderating as Doug, not Buck. This before it was official. I believe we also disagree on which one is now on FFL. As an expert in language forms yourself, I am surprised that you refer to him by a different name You mean, his real name, the one he's been posting under. considering his use of the same tortured language style that Buck was infamous for using. Doug's language style has always been tortured (although it's not as bad as you pretend) whether he was appearing as Buck or himself. That isn't what makes the difference. Rick has not authorized Doug to "clean up the group" by banning folks because of their negative opinions of TM, but rather to clean up the incivility, which he's been doing. Speaking of which, my recollection is that his "terrorist" and "drone strikes" comments had to do with the critics' vicious attacks on TM supporters rather than their opinions about TM.
