--- In [email protected], a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > If someone is having "enlightenment" experiences or is > > stabilized as Self and talks about an ego, I don't > > doubt their experiences, I just wonder what it is they > > are referring to when they say "ego." When I say in > > enlightenmernt that there is no ego what I mean is > > that there is no subjective self. There is no "me". > > The pronoun "me" or "I" doesn't refer to anything. The > > mind looks for something and there is nothing there, > > literally. In waking state the mind turns inward and > > experiences a thought/feeling sense of an individual; > > a private "me." This is what disappears in CC. There > > is just consciousness and then everything else > > (objective and subjective). You could say, "I am pure > > consciousness", but the problem with this is that > > there is no "I" to be or not to be anything. There is > > just consciousness and objects that are not > > consciousness. Thoughts and feelings are there, but > > there is no "I" having these or taking ownership of > > these subjective experiences. > > > All that is good and fine. I am just pointing out, as I have > periodically over the past several years, is that some other > self-proclaimed enlightened, such as M, Goodman, have argued at length > that a "self" and "ego" and sense of individuality do exist in > enlightenemnt. > > My point is that you each appear to be i) defining elightenment > differently and ii) are 'experiencing' different things, and thus to > both use the same term "enlightenment" to describe your "states", > makes the term meaningless, and contributes to very muddled language, > discussion and "understandings". > > Further, I continue to point out that if you have no sense of "ego" > and yet still feel "insulted" at times, then there probably a > cognitive error going on. Feeling insulted is a diminishment of the > sense of ego. If you feel such, ergo, within the Peter-sphere, there > must be an ego. But that you may be blind to it, like an eye trying to > see itself. >
Tricky stuff this ego business in enlightenment... I would think of it as the ego associated with the small self is a collection of stories and limitations and assumptions that we identify with, vs the ego associated with the Self as a convenient expression of the machinery of our localized existence; "a mirage of convenience", so to speak. An analogy would be to think of a clear tube that we look down within ourselves to find our identity. In waking state, we look down the tube and down a ways, we see a collection of stories and limitations and assumptions which we then proclaim, "this is me". In enlightenment, we look down the clear tube and see all the way through it, to a vast infinite blue (or whatever color) ocean, which we then see, "this is me". So there is an experiential difference between the two states. In one, the waking state, we identify with the stuff clogging the tube on the way to the infinite ocean, and this informs all of our actions and thoughts. In enlightenment, there is identification with that vast infinite ocean within, and we conveniently use our machinery of localized existence to express ourselves. Only, in enlightenment, there is no sense of attachment or "I-ness" with our thoughts or actions. They continue to be expressed individually, but without identification or attachment on our part. In enlightenment, the ego is a mirage of convenience. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
