--- In [email protected], Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "God is subject. When we make honest mistake, when we > love God we think he is an object. He is the subject, > you know? So you have to surrender to the subject. You > are the object. Nobody can understand what I am > speaking to you now. So you merge into the subject so > that no object is left behind. Nobody is left." > > > I was listening to this tape when I heard this and > almost drove off the road. This is really intense > stuff!
Subject driving into Subject? Can you elaborate why this passage was particularly special for you? Its true language in a way, structures the way we "perceive" things -- it molds cognitive maps that influences our take on "experience" and "knowledge". A rough corollary to "knowledge is structered in consciousness" -- language structures "understanding" at the groking level. And english -- as many languages, can structure a false relationship of subject and object. But do you find that is an overwhelming structure? It appears to me that the cognitive maps and structures created or influnced by language, begin to bend and mold to the "reality" of spiritual "infussions" Thus, "I pray to God", subject to object, structures our initial cognitive "takes" on and grokingess of God. But further experience seems to reshape and overcome this faulty and leaky cognitive structure. For example, in doing puja, Subject (here) is sublimely enlivenend, and the same Subjectivenss is enlivened "there". In offerings and final bowing and surrender its enlivened Subject merging with enlivened Subjectness. Not subject bowing to object -- as language initially sturctures the relationship. (I use papji's term "Subject" here, though that is not a perfect word for it implies "somebody". ) Same with yagyas, if you have attended them, and particulary if you have been able to participate in the offerings. That same Subject is enlivened, and the whole "out there" "glows" and breaths in that same Subjectness. In each offering, Subject offers to Subject. Another example occurred when I was in Thailand. In some museums there are literally 1000's of Buddha statues. Many from monestaries. They seem alive with "that same stuff" -- as puja and yagyas. After a while, walking past one after another, and bowing slightly physically, and completely internally, upon obtaining audience with each one, one after another, hundreds after hundreds, it was all Subject bowing to Subjectness. In day to daylife, particuary in walks in nature, trees and flowers, even the ground can be "alive" with Subjectness. In more inner life, when we want to "explore" God, where do we look? Its into that Subjectness "stuff" we 'peer" and swim. Not in things. (Though we may swim in the Subjectness of things.) I assume all of these things are what Maharishi refers to as "Self-Referal" -- though I sense, and experience, that there are several levels of meaning of the phrase. Just as there is for "Knowledge is Structured in Consciousness." I am sure these things are common experinces. Thus "God" as Subject does not seem an extraordinary view -- its common in many scriptures, and explicit in many types of experiences, such as above. So I am trying to understand what you find extraordinary in this passage. Is it "You are the object" in contrast to God as Subject? I read that as simply a recognition of "dual" nature -- we, bodies/minds etc are "object" when "praying" to God=Subject, so its a funny contrast -- object praying to Subject" but the experience is Subject merging into Subject. Like puja. "So you merge into the subject so that no object is left behind. Nobody is left." What am I missing that you find extraordinary in this passage? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
