--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <no_reply@> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > Just look at the cross- > > > cultural range of spiritual experiences -- do Native > > > Americans cognize Shiva and Brahma when they have > > > visions? Do people brought up Catholic cognize > > > Krishna when they have visions? No, of course they > > > don't -- the Native Americans have the visions they > > > expect to have, and the Catholics see Jesus or Mary > > > or the beings *they* expect to see. > > > > It's an interesting question, but I think one should split > > it into two parts. > > 1) How is what they *see* influenced by what they know about > > and expect. > > 2) How is the way they *interpret* what they have seen > > influenced by expectation and cultural background > > In my opinion, it's an irrelevant distinction.
Hm, I don't think it would be irrelevant, but I agree that it would be hard to separate the two. > The > experience itself often happens in an alternate > reality. The description of it happens afterwards. Sure. But in case of visions, there are clear clues in memory. Memory obviously seems to work. Like this man saw a face of a man with a turban. He didn't just interpret the turban to be there later on. I guess its an accurate memory. Or Bernadette saw the Lady in a pond. She didn't just interpret the pond to be there later on, her memory I think could be taken to be accurate. And there were no cultural clues for her to manufacture this later on. > In your #1 above, what they "see" is how they > describe what they "saw" after the fact, in the > waking state. I think they were not in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, so there were visual perceptions in that higher state that could be remembered. > In your #2 above, how they interpret > the experience is also a description, also done > from the waking state, after the fact. I think the distinction here is between visual impression and the memory thereof. The visual impression is during the experience, the memory of course after, the interpretation of it still later. Its like with dreams. We still have memories of dreams, even when we are awake. They may be interpreted, but they are still visual memories. > The only > thing that is relevant to the actual experience > is the actual experience. Not quite, because the effect of the experience is very often still felt after, and carried across into the waking state. And that is how it's meant to be. > In other words, the only way one could get a > "real-time" description of an experience of an > alternate reality is if the person was somehow > relating it *in* real time, for example, talk- > ing into a tape recorder while it was going on. > But if they were doing that, and able to handle > the talking into a tape recorder (very much a > normal waking-state reality type of activity) > are they really fully experiencing the alternate > reality? In some cases this is clearly possible. Its like automatic writing. Just in most cases one doesn't know that one is going to have such an experience. Anyway, usually people are overwhelmed after such experiences and are searching for clues, and usually such clues come. There is an interesting interpretation of St Pauls experience of Christ by Ramana.According to Ramana Paulus had an experience of pure Being. When he started to come to his normal state, slowly, the firts thought he had was of Christ, as this was always formost in his mind, as he persecuted him. Therefore he interpreted the experience to be that of Christ, and that is, well how Christianity came about. ;-) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
