--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <jedi_spock@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >       First, What is your definition of insanity.??
> > 
> > It would be complex, because insanity is a complex
> > subject, but I'm pretty sure that one aspect of it
> > would include defining as insane people who give 
> > themselves the titles of kings and expect others to 
> > honor those titles.
> 
> Who expects anyone to honor the rajah titles, even within the TMO?

Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't
consider that insane.  My main problem here is that MMY is still
giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people
based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since
the 108 days.  I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to
whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money
all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file.
 
>  It would also include those 
> > stupid enough *to* honor these self-given titles.  :-)
> 
> 
> Who DOES honor those titles outside the ceremonies of the club that 
> they belong to?

You're right, no-one ... but MMY has expressed genuine disappointment
that Hagelin was not elected president and at other rather bizarre
notions, so it seems he and others in the inner circle might take
these titles very seriously.

> > >       Second, it may not be sane, but you cannot ignore
> > > the teachings completely.  That would be like throwing
> > > the baby along with the bathwater.
> > 
> > Some babies deserve to be thrown out.  I'm with Shemp
> > on this one -- the *only* teaching I think was *ever*
> > of worth in the TM movement was how to do basic TM.
> 
> > I think that's a good start for almost anyone, and
> > thus potentially valuable.  I think that everything
> > else, including the siddhis and the diet advice and
> > all the "Vedic" bullshit, is better thrown out.
> 
> The Sidhis aren't of value? Amrit kalash isn't? Ayurveda isn't 
> sweeping the country in popularity?

Ayurved is popular in new agey and wholistic circles, but not sweeping
the nation IMO, and sweeping mainly in Chopra and Weil circles.  Amrit
kalash is sweeping the emerging diabetics section of the country.  The
issue for me isn't whether these alternative programs have potential
value, but how the tmo has managed them - the enlightenment centers in
malls plan is a joke and sweeping towards bankrupcy, but no-one dares
contradicts or gives reality checks to raja wynne or MMY.
 
> > >       Third, A little bit of Snake-Oil might be
> > > necessary to grease the wheels of a big movement.
> > 
> > Who said a big movement was necessary?  That's the 
> > question that True Believers never seem to ask them-
> > selves.  Many spiritual organizations (for example,
> > Vipassana) have entirely volunteer organizations that
> > teach for free and end up teaching ten to twenty times
> > the number of people worldwide to meditate that the
> > TM organization does.
> 
> Vipassana has taught 3 million in this country?

This is a really interesting pt.  There has to be some middle ground
between being a effective (corporate-like) marketing org. (which is
necessary to actually reach people today) and being obsessed with
marketing driven by greed or culty evangelical zeal (which ultimately
undermines your original mission).  I think the tmo balanced it pretty
well in the 70s.

>   In my opinion, the TMO has turned
> > into an entity primarily concerned with perpetuating 
> > itself, not with helping others.  The goals of the
> > organization are long forgotten; all that matters now
> > is perpetuating the organization.
> 
> At this point in time, you may be correct. OTOH, the upcoming seminar 
> on TM and its effect on education and ADHD is expected to have over 
> 100 people. True, the invited guests don't have to pay for their 
> lunch atthe Tucson Hilton, but even so, it's a good start.

Certainly lots of potential for marketing TM via specific areas like
high blood pressure, ADHD and others, but doesn't seem to be the
desire of the central org. who whole heartedly believe MMY and the TMO
are the only hope for world salvation right now and who want billions
to achieve it.  For 2 decades now these good little projects have
withered away for this reason.

> > >       Fourth, Take what is good in all the masters and
> > > leave out the irrelevant and the unnecessary.
> > 
> > IMO, there have never been any "masters" in history,
> > only people who longed to be subservient and thus
> > picked someone to be subservient to so that they
> > could call them "master."
 
> Which is why I still call my ole gung fu teacher "sifu" when I see 
> him, and why I call my former Japanese teacher "Yamashita-sensei," 
> even though he hasn't been my teacher in over a year, when he calls 
> to say hi.

Sounds like you're giving them respect, which is good and different
from subservience.







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