--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman <thedoc108@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > The fact is many people in the movement are receiving
> > > deeksha because it gives direct experience of the
> > > Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no
> > > teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or
> > > loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure
> > > experience. 
> > 
> > And for many of them, pure experience is something
> > that the TM movement only talks about, and never
> > provides.  So of course they're open to something
> > that *might* provide that experience.
> Most people don't report regular periods of transcending during
> TM -- even the long-term meditators don't. OTOH, people who have 
> practiced TM for more than 4 months tend to show the same general 
> EEG pattern, though it DOES get more pronounced during a period of 
> TC. Long-term TMers show this pattern more outside meditation, and 
> peoplewho report witnessing 24/7 show it more than those who don't.
> I'd say that TM provides SOME kind of experience to everyone who 
> continues it, even if its not flashy, if TC can be called "flashy."

As Barry well knows, TM has never valued "experience"
for its own sake, so for him to say the TMO "only talks
about and never provides" it is (typically) absurd.

As to your comment, it's not clear that Steve's phrase
"pure experience" refers to experience of pure consciousness
during meditation; that's why I asked him to say more
about it.  His response indicates that, for him at least,
diksha has made a huge difference in his everyday life.

And that kind of experience, of course, is what the TMO
*does* value.

But of course TM has made a huge difference in many
people's everyday lives, so even if we understand "pure
experience" to be a reference to that kind of difference,
rather than experience of pure consciousness, Barry's
claim that the TMO "never provides" it is absurd.

It would seem that diksha provides *something* that
some TMers value but don't otherwise experience,
certainly, but what it is exactly remains undefined, so
we don't know whether the TMO talks about it without
providing it, or not.

I'd be interested in knowing whether people who don't
practice TM have the same results with diksha.

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