--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > <shempmcgurk@> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies > > > > > " Seven > > > > > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > > > > > > > > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... > > > > > > Or blame someone so stupid and lazy that he bases > > > his bigoted rant against Tibetant Buddhism on the > > > little he's seen in the movies. :-) > > > > Are you saying that Martin Scorcese was wrong? > > No, merely that for cinematic reasons he shortened > a month-long process into about three or four minutes > of screen time and that you, like many equally-brain- > dead, lazy Americans, thought that those three to four > minutes portrayed the whole story. :-) > > Also, that *as* a brain-dead, lazyass, incurious American, > you were content to *settle* for the "movie version" > rather than looking into the reality, and exerting a > little effort to find out more. :-)
I have the effort but not the attention-span. > > > How about the documentary "Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion"? > > > > If I'm wrong in my analysis, why not tell me where I'm wrong? > > Well, since you asked...basically I think you're an > angry guy who has spent thirty years or so pursuing a > spiritual path that has never paid off for him in terms > of direct spiritual experience. I meant regarding the Dalai Lama and HIS history, not mine, Barry. > Therefore, you are jealous > of and want to fuck with those whose paths *have* paid > off for them in terms of spiritual experience. You mean the issue that I was addressing? The "spiritual experience" of 1.5 million Tibetans who died unnecessarily? The rest of the Tibetan culture unnecessary descimated? Yeah, you're right, I'm really jealous. But I'd still like you to tell me where my analysis is wrong (without you having to tell me which books to read to get the answers). Can't you? > What gets > you off is trying to find things that'll enable you to put > down those who have had experiences you have not. > > In other words, your operating system is Aesopian: > sour grapes. You'd rather put down someone else's > experiences than do a little work to have your own. :-) I love your use of the ":-)" which you employ whenever you're criticizing someone and venting your spleen but want to still maintain that "I'm a loosy-goosy cool intellectual living in France" personae. Why not just be honest and leave out the ":-)"? That way, when you DO use the ":-)", it will actually mean something. > > > > > Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. > > > > > > Or, much better, read: "The Fourteen Dalai Lamas: A > > > Sacred Legacy of Reincarnation," by Dalai Lama XIV, > > > Glenn H. Mullin, and Valerie Shepherd. > > > > > > This book lists the historical "tests" that were > > > performed to verify that the kid named as the rein- > > > carnation of the previous Dalai Lama really was. > > > Unlike the "movie version," the tests often went > > > on for a month, five or six such tests per day. > > > Failing *any* of them meant that the kid was not > > > the right one. > > > > hahahahahahahahaahaha. > > > > Dear, dear Barry. I've seen to hit a sore spot. > > You'd like to think that. But the reality is that, > *unlike you*, I've actually *studied* with Tibetan > teachers who could *demonstrate* the basis on which > they can track beings through their incarnations. > I've been there, done that as they did it. It's an > utterly fascinating, nigh unto mindblowing experience. You're very special. > > And yes, it makes *absolutely no sense* to someone > who is attached to Western ways of seeing and think- > ing, but damn! -- when you are there participating > in the process -- damn if it doesn't work. Go figure. > > > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > > > hahahahahahahahahaha. > > Laugh while you can, Monkeyboy. > > (Trivia question here...who can name the movie > that the above quote comes from?) :-) "The Adventures of Buckaroo Bonzai across the Eigth Dimension". > > The issue, Shemp, is that you're laughing at a > group of people who have more knowledge than you > do about a certain subject -- death, dying, and > reincarnation. I totally concede that point to you, Barry, I am totally ignorant of that field. > And you're laughing at them and > trying to put them down, Actually, I was laughing at you. For the Tibetan Buddhists, I have the utmost respect. For the Dalai Lama, I have a great deal of skepticism. But that is mostly a function of the almost fanatical reverence given him by many in the Western World. Instead of giving him Nobel Peace Prizes, I'd prefer to examine why so many died in a holcaust under his watch. Should we be afraid to ask such questions? Or should we just blindly consider him a great messenger of peace and blindly put him up on a pedestal? > when what a *smart* seeker > would be doing is trying to figure out what they > know, and whether it might be useful. > > Did you notice, only a few days ago, how *quickly* > the subject of death, dying and reincaration *DIED* > here on FFL? No, I didn't actually because it's not a subject that interests me. I didn't interest me 25 years ago when it was rumoured in the TMO that Andy Rhymer was Abraham Lincoln in a previous reincarnation and it doesn't interest me now. Barry, I'm sure you were someone very, very special in your previous lifetimes but please forgive me if I don't show interest. However, I'm sure others on this forum will indulge you. > The subject came up, a few TMers posted > the few rumors that they'd heard about the subject > from within the TM movement or from other Indian > sources, and a couple of people posted a few more > tangible things they'd learned from the Tibetan > teachers with whom they'd actually studied. And > within a day the subject was no more. Over. Fini. > Ignored as if it had never happened. > > I thought it was a fascinating exchange. The *reason* > the subject died so quickly was -- in my opinion -- > because the TMers realized how little they actually > *knew* about death and dying, and about how the > reincarnation process actually works. They were able, > when the subject came up, to report only *rumors* > that they'd heard from *non-official* TM sources. > The discussion made it clear that *at no point* in > their entire TM "career" had anyone sat them down > and explained to them what death and dying were all > about, and how they could best prepare for it. > > I guess my point is that when it comes to the process > of death, dying, and rebirth, you are *not* likely > to find out anything of worth by studying with anyone > from an Indian/Hindu background. Whereas, if that is > one your interests, you *are* likely to find out a > little of how it all works by studying with a tradition > that has delved into this subject for thousands of > years, with some success. That is, Tibetan Buddhists. Well, perhaps that explains the holocaust of death in this world: their minds are so powerful that because they spend so much of their time, according to you, thinking and intellectualizing about the field of death instead of useful subjects like life and living and how to better one's life in the here and now that death was visited upon them before their time. I guess you get what you ask for. > > They've got a clue, in my opinion. In my opinion, NO > ONE I've *ever* encountered from an Indian/Hindu-based > tradition does. They are basically *clueless* as to > what happens when they die, and often as fearful of > dying as the "man on the street." (Just look at > Maharishi hiding in his sterile room, You mean like you do spending hour upon hour in front of a computer monitor dialoging on a forum whose subject is a meditation technique you haven't done in 25 years? > afraid to even > interact with other human beings...is this how some- > one who is 'established in Brahman' or even unafraid > of death would act?) > > And to be even more in your face, death is going to > happen -- to YOU No! > -- far sooner than you want it to. You remind me of a landlady I had about 20 years ago who was a fundamentalist Christian. When she refused to pay me my safety deposit when I moved out, I sent her one of those "do govern yourself accordingly" letters in order to get her to pay me, which she did. When she was handing the money over to me, she told me that God was going to punish me for what I did to her. You sound a little like her: Shemp, you are going to die far sooner than you think. Barry, your long, long diatribe on a subject I have no interest in and was not even the subject of this thread confirms to me that I hit upon a soft spot with you. Give it a rest. Let it go. > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > and probably closer to ten. No, Jesus, NO! > You're going to be lying > on your deathbed, Fire > still knowing as little about what > lies in front of you when your body breathes its last > breath as you do today. Brimstone. > You'll be about to dive into > an experience that is as much a mystery for you as it > was the day you were born. Whereas a lot of people who > have actually studied with the tradition you like to > make fun of (Tibetan Buddhism) will just be getting > ready to perform a series of meditational exercises > that they've been preparing for their whole lives. > > For those who have prepared for the Bardo experience, > their journey to enlightenment is just beginning. > A new adventure is about to take place. But for those > of you who never bothered to learn what dying is all > about, and the opportunities that the Bardo provides > for realization, you will be ready to give up at the > moment of death. > > I'm just sayin', Shemp...that the time before you die > might be better spent figuring out what dying is all > about than it would be trashing the only people on the > planet who seem to be able to *teach* you what dying > is all about. Like I said, I wasn't trashing the Tibetan Buddhists, just their leader. I don't know much about the Tibtan Buddhists nor do I want to know about them and I certainly am not interested in the whole death and reincarnation thing that fascinates you. I am interested in the field of living and not repeating unnecessary holocausts. > > But nothing I will say will have an effect. You will > just react to this the same way you always do when > someone posts about experiences you have never had, > and try to put down both the experiences and the > person reporting them. And then you'll go back to > wallowing in being ignorant, never having made even > an *attempt* to learn something new and interesting. > And this will keep happening -- over and over and > over -- until the day you die. More fire. > And *then* it will > keep happening *after* you die, too. More brimstone. > Dying is all > about habits, Shemp. IMO, your habits are going > to lead you to a much lower birth than you needed to > settle for. But it seems likely that you *will* > settle for it. Fundamentalist Christians = fear Taliban = fear Barry Wright = fear > > Bottom line...if you want to discuss the Tibetan lore > about death, dying, and reincarnation, you actually > have to do some fuckin' *homework* and read about it. For the thousandth time, I'm not INTERESTED in reincarnation. We were talking about the slaughter of Tibetans in THIS lifetime, Barry, not the next lifetime. > Ask me which books to read, and I'll tell you. But until > you *have* read them, I have to write you off as a > typically stupid, brain-dead American -- Ignorant And > Proud Of It. > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
