--- In [email protected], Michael Dean Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >>Michael Dean Goodman had written: > > >>I don't know much about the whole USA, but here where I live in southeast > >>Florida, the two recertified teacher couples who teach in the three > >>local counties (Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade), population about > >>3+ million, have taught around 30 over the past year. I know because > >>of seeing the attendance and response at some of their intros, because > >>of the new meditators regularly showing up at the weekly Sunday night > >>group program and pot-luck social that I sometimes attend, and because > >>of the teachers' reports of when they've had courses and how many have > >>started in response to private conversations I have with them. Although > >>it would be theoretically possible that they are conning me and making > >>these numbers up, from both the direct evidence I've personally seen, > >>and from my interaction with these teachers and sense of their integrity > >>when talking privately with me - I believe my numbers to be accurate. > > > > shempmcgurk replied: > > > So they told you specifically that between the two of them they > > initiated around 30 during the past 12 months? > > Or are those YOUR figures? > > The former. > > And it's "among the four of them" if you read what I wrote. They are > two couples = four people, all active in teaching. > > > > If they're your figures, why don't you just ask them how many they > > initiated? > > They aren't. I have. > > How could you be confused about this point after reading what I wrote?
Because of the way you wrote it. But you've clarified it now. Thanks. > > To me, the paragraph I wrote above makes it very clear that they told > me this number (30), and then I "verified" the number using various > methods. For example, when I said: "Although it would be theoretically > possible that they are conning me and making these numbers up..." - what > sense would that make if they hadn't told me "these numbers" (30) and > I'd just made up these numbers myself? Then that sentence would be non- > sensical, as would the whole explanation of how I'd verified their num- > bers. The only reasonable reading of that sentence (and others - in > fact the whole post!) is that they told me the number 30, and I veri- > fied it from various observations. > > Perhaps you're "confused" about my meaning because it's not a meaning > that you like, that you agree with, that you want to hear? Actually, I've been doing TM twice a day for the better part of the past 33 years. I would like nothing more than to have initiation numbers today as they were in the '70s...not 30 per year between 4 initiators but 30 a weekend between 2 initiators which was the rule rather than the exception back then... > > But in case I wasn't clear enough, I'll re-write that paragraph quoted > above to be super-explicit, and remove ANY possibility of ambiguity. > Try this new version: > > >>I don't know much about the whole USA, but here where I live in southeast > >>Florida, the two recertified teacher couples [four people] who teach in > >>the three local counties (Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade), popula- > >>tion about 3+ million, have taught around 30 over the past year according > >>to their figures. I believe that this is fairly accurate because: > >> (a) I've seen the attendance and response at some of their intros, > >> (b) I've seen the number of new meditators regularly showing up at the > >> weekly Sunday night group program and pot-luck social that I some- > >> times attend, > >> (c) The local teachers have reported to me (1) when they've had courses > >> and (2) how many have started in each course, > (in response to private inquiries I've made to them). > >>Putting their numbers together with these other methods of verification > >>leads me to believe that the number (30 in the past year) is accurate. > > >>Although it would be theoretically possible that they are conning me and > >>making up these numbers (~30 initiations in the last year), from both the > >>direct evidence I've personally seen, and from my interaction with these > >>teachers and my sense of their integrity when talking privately with me - > >>I believe their numbers to be accurate. > > > >>In the original post, Michael Dean Goodman said: > > >>I still don't believe that it's important how many people are starting > >>TM, or that it makes any difference in terms of Maharishi's assignment > >>to make a shift in the trends of the world... > > > > shempmcgurk replied: > > > You DON'T believe it's important how many people are starting TM? > > > And you don't believe it makes any difference in terms of trends in > > the world? > > Were my words above unclear? ;) > > > Too bad. I do. > > Good for you - you have an opinion. > But based on what? > What's your explanation for why focussing on initiating more people > would be a better use of resources than converting more of the al- > ready-initiated into sidhas, or convincing more of the already- sidhas > to do program together, or convincing more of the already-doing- pro- > gram-together-locally that they should join big groups (like MUM), or > gathering and training groups of pundits, or even backing off of all > of this, "turning the burners down", and not purifying the Earth fas- > ter than it can handle without it "boiling over". > > > Too bad. I do. > > Pretty terse. No explanation. No reasoning. No evidence. > No exchange of ideas. Just your proclamation. > > For an explanation of my point of view, please see message #90043, > "TM Course Fees and the Real Goals of the Movement", a lengthy, con- > troversial essay I posted here a couple of times, that has made it's > way around the world, been translated into multiple languages on var- > ious lists (Russian, German, Spanish, etc.), and explains, based on > Maharishi's own words, why initiations of individuals into TM were > not important for the past 30 years. > > Go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/90043 > > You read mine, then I'll read yours (that you'll eventually post), > then we'll have an intelligent dialogue. > > > Namaste, > > Michael > > PARA - THE CENTER FOR REALIZATION > Michael Dean Goodman, Ph.D., D.D., Director > Boca Raton (Palm Beach County) Florida > 561-350-3930 (messages received 24 hours a day) * [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Spiritual guide (ashtanga yoga/meditation, tantra, vedanta, ayur veda...) > Counselor * Author * Speaker/Educator > Satsang * Workshops & Retreats * Classes * Private Educational Sessions > Clients and programs throughout the United States, Europe, and India > Working in person or by phone > Free initial consultation to discuss your needs and goals > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' 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