--- In [email protected], "suziezuzie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Peter <drpetersutphen@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- suziezuzie <msilver1951@> wrote: > > > > > At what level of psychosis would you suggest that > > > someone shouldn't > > > meditate? > > > > Any level of psychosis! > > > > > And how do you define psychosis, what > > > symptoms are > > > manifesting in those you checked? > > > > Delusions, hallucinations, loss of ego boundaries, > > derealization, depersonalization, ideas of reference, > > paranoia. > > > > > > > I > > > know someone who always looks to their right when > > > they eat as if > > > someone is watching them. They also talk to > > > themselves quite > > > habitually as if another person is in the room. > > > Would you initiate > > > someone like this? > > > > Probably not. They need to be assessed by a mental > > health professional. These could all be symptoms of an > > underlying psychological disorder. > > > > > > > > > How do you judge at what level > > > someone's psychosis > > > becomes a hazard to the practice and that TM would > > > make it worse? > > > > Anyone who is psychotic should not start TM nor > > continue with the practice. Psychosis is a general > > term given to someone with symptoms that indicate a > > loss of contact with object/consensual reality. They > > present with hallucinations and delusions. > > > > > > > On another note, what do you think psychosis is? Why > > > and how does > > > this behavior manifest itself? Do you think it's > > > purely an organic > > > defect that has some expression in the personality > > > such as paranoia? > > > > I think psychosis, for the most part, is an organic > > brain disorder whose symptoms appear in the > > psychological domain. > > > > > > > Why does TM make it worse? > > > > TM makes it worse because in psychosis a person's ego > > structures are being over-whelmed. They are losing > > their psychological constructs that allow them to > > expereince and interact with the object/consensual > > world. TM moves the mind towards greater and greater > > levels of abstraction which overwhelms these mental > > structures even more. Psychotic people can not even > > experience ambiguous stimuli (something that does not > > have clear, definite meaning) without becoming worse > > in seconds. TM is not an effective intervention with > > psychotics because it moving the attention in the > > "wrong" direction. They need to move the attention > > into boundaries, not away from them. I developed a > > very effective intervention with psychotics during an > > internship I had using what MMY had said during my TTC > > regarding the breakdown of mind/body coordination in > > schizophrenics. He said you could help schizophrenics > > by hitting them with a flower and saying, "flower, > > flower," everytime you hit them. This just sat in my > > notes for years until I started working in the mental > > health field with psychotics. I realized what MMY was > > talking about with this intervention. So in groups I > > used to pass objects around (e.g., cups, pencils, > > books, etc) and each person had to hold the object and > > state what their direct experience of the object was > > at that moment. No associations, only their direct > > experience. This, over time, had an amazing effect of > > radically reducing hallucinations and delusions as > > noted by myself and other staff members. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > In Scientology, they put an emphasis on object reality consensus as > you put it, exercises that have the practitioner touch things, or > demonstrate ideas with clay, etc. I don't encourage Scientology > because I have found that on the other hand, their techniques lack > the abstraction that I find so fulfilling in TM and I'm convinced > that their techniques do not allow for an experience of > transcendence. They, like yourself feel that abstract experiences > make a person worse. If one isn't grounded personally, ie., psychotic > even to a mild degree, this may be true. > > For myself, after meditating for 35 years, I have to tell you that I > love the pure abstraction that I experience, that field of pure bliss > consciousness (for a lack of better words). But on the other hand, I > must also tell you that any traces of psychotic personality that I > may have incurred before starting TM are still with me! The only > difference now is that I manage these behaviors, look at them for > what they are, witness them, see them clearly as they manifest. This > is not to say that I am very psychotic but have very low levels of > personality dysfunction, that I as a non professional would diagnose > as low level psychotic manifestations. TM has clearly not addressed > this but hasn't made it worse either, even on long rounding courses. > > In my opinion, I became even more convinced that I possessed > psychosis from the psychotic episodes experienced after taking strong > marijuana or hashish, this being many years ago but nevertheless, I > have been curious as to why this experience would manifest except > that it was there to begin with and was simply amplified by the > presence of drugs. > > I suppose that if psychosis as you've put it, is organic in origin > influencing the psychological domain, then possibly TM cannot heal > the physical counterpart and therefore the psychosis remains or > becomes worse. I don't believe that the exercises you devised cured > the physical origins of the disease either but addressed the ego > structures as you put it, solidifying the personality, temporarily. > The bottom line here is, that if the organism, i.e., nervous system, > brain, etc., has been damaged, TM cannot change this but for some, > may make the psychosis manageable. > > Mark
Very nice Mark. Carry on ! "All will be well, all matters of things will be well." Jai Guru Dev
