--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "jim_flanegin" <jflanegi@> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Dec 30, 2006, at 6:04 PM, bob_brigante wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > In your post
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/126763
> > > > > I found it interesting that Maharishi repeated several 
times 
> > that
> > > > > people should only be meditating 3-4 hours. I wonder if 
this 
> > > > > message got through to Bevan et al who are requiring 
> > invincibility
> > > > > course participants to do 8 hours:
> > > > 
> > > > He probably contradicts himself quite often. 
> > > 
> > > Always has. So do the most enlightened teachers I've
> > > encountered on the planet. The constant contradiction
> > > is not a problem IMO; the tendency for people to want
> > > not to *deal* with the contradiction and say that one
> > > version is the "correct" version is where the problem
> > > lies. :-)
> > > 
> > > > The recent posts attributed to him seem to indicate some 
> > > > senility. 
> > > 
> > > I wouldn't say senility. I have seen no real sign of 
> > > the more common forms of senility. But I *am* getting 
> > > really tired of the kind of echolalia he indulges in 
> > > (repeating words that don't need to be repeated). That's 
> > > certainly becoming more pronounced lately. 
> > > 
> > > > So he's probably  
> > > > said both 3-4 and 8 if you go back in the transcripts.
> > > > 
> > > > What's disturbing to me is his emphasis on subtle meditative 
> > > > moods and getting the students to wallow in them. 
> > > 
> > > Bingo.
> > > 
> > > The gist of this latest talk seems to be, "These are the
> > > experiences I want to hear. Don't bother to get up to
> > > the microphone if you don't have one of these type of
> > > experiences to relate. And, by the way, what you *really*
> > > want to do more than anything else on this course is to 
> > > get yourself on the LIST of people who are *having* the 
> > > type of experiences I want to hear about."
> > > 
> > > Well duh...what do you think people are going to be 
> > > falling all over themselves to report from now on?
> > > 
> > > It *surprised* me to see MMY pandering to the inherent 
> > > tendency in spiritual devotees to *moodmake* the type
> > > of experiences they have been *told* are expected of
> > > them. It's such a contrast to Rama and some of the other
> > > teachers I've worked with -- in the cases where they 
> > > asked what people's experiences were, they really wanted
> > > to *know* what people's experiences were. There was NEVER
> > > any suggestion of what a "good" experience was, or what
> > > type of experience was expected or "better" than another.
> > > I guess I got used to that type of *non*-programming in
> > > such "talk about your experiences" sessions, and was a
> > > little shocked to read this latest rap, in which it is
> > > pretty clear that if you want to be considered "happening"
> > > on this course, and on the LIST, you should stand up and 
> > > say that you are having the "expected" experiences, or 
> > > (given the before-mentioned tendency of devotees to give 
> > > the teacher whatever he asks for), pretend to be having 
> > > such experiences.
> > > 
> > > > Why would you want to encourage such nonsense? Since there's 
> > > > no spiritual benefit, one has to assume it's to raise more 
> > > > money.
> > > 
> > > I would not go so far. I think that a much simpler, and
> > > kinder, explanation is that these are the types of exper-
> > > iences that Maharishi assumes he *should* be hearing by
> > > now, given all his time working with these people. There-
> > > fore he *wants* to hear them, so he's telling people *what*
> > > he wants to hear, so that they'll *say* what he wants to
> > > hear. 
> > > 
> > > To be open to all possibilities, it is certainly possible 
> > > that some of the people who report such experiences after 
> > > hearing what kind of experiences they are *supposed* to be 
> > > having are doing so in good faith, and reporting their real
> > > experiences. But the fact that they *have* been told what
> > > to report taints the reports themselves. if you've been 
> > > around the spiritual block a few times and are aware of how 
> > > devotees tend to tell the teacher what the teacher wants to 
> > > hear, the fact that he told everyone in no uncertain terms 
> > > what he wanted to hear doesn't really suggest that such 
> > > reports are going to be free of moodmaking.
> > 
> > There are specific experiences associated with the refinement of 
> > consciousness, cognitive milestones as consciousness is refined. 
> > Maharishi has heard of people bringing up these experiences and 
now 
> > wants to hear about more of them, so that he can gauge what is 
> > occurring on the course. 
> > 
> > This is not some mood-making exercise. If people want to 
moodmake, 
> > that is clearly enough seen. I haven't seen any evidence of 
> > moodmaking in the domes from the experiences that have been 
posted 
> > here and in otrher groups. They read genuine. What is going on 
in 
> > the domes is the unfoldment of the Vedas, *not* moodmaking.
> 
> I hope that you are correct. It's just that the validity 
> of many of your other "seeings" tends to make that a 
> faint hope  :-)
> 
> > You appear to see Maharishi as a false teacher, a person driven 
by 
> > petty desires, more concerned about his appearance than almost 
> > anything else. Just as Steve ("vaj") sees him, as a greedy 
failure, 
> > out for money. Why this is I am not sure, for it all seems to be 
a 
> > dreamt up scenario which you and Steve ("vaj") constantly play 
out, 
> > supposedly trying to convince some imaginary brainwashed TMers 
of 
> > this concocted reality about Maharishi, when in fact all you are 
> > doing is sharing your own fantasy about Maharishi-- nothing 
more. 
> > There is no benefit to the constant strawman games and false 
> > arguments you pose about Maharishi, no 'aha!' experience to be 
> > gained from it, because there is no truth in it. Just another 
> > fantasy.
> 
> Jim, I believe NONE of the things that you attribute
> to me above. Not one of them. You will find none of
> them in the post you replied to, at least none written
> by me. Hell, even *Judy* didn't seem to find any of 
> them in her reply to the same post; her response was 
> measured, thoughtful and not at all "button-pushed."
> 
> Compare and contrast to yours. Something you read 
> pushed one of your buttons. As a spiritual exercise,
> you might just oughta PageUp and read the post again 
> and figure out what it was. 
> 
> Happy New Year anyway. I'm about to go party down at a
> chateau near my village. It is at the top of the highest
> mountain in the area, and tonight is so clear that we'll 
> be able to see for maybe a hundred kilometers. I wish
> everyone on the list equal clarity of vision in the
> next year.
>

Happy New Year!

PS so this is what you said about what Maharishi was saying, that I 
then responded to. No buttons pushed. :-)

The gist of this latest talk seems to be, "These are the
> > experiences I want to hear. Don't bother to get up to
> > the microphone if you don't have one of these type of
> > experiences to relate. And, by the way, what you *really*
> > want to do more than anything else on this course is to
> > get yourself on the LIST of people who are *having* the
> > type of experiences I want to hear about."
> >
> > Well duh...what do you think people are going to be
> > falling all over themselves to report from now on?
> >
> > It *surprised* me to see MMY pandering to the inherent
> > tendency in spiritual devotees to *moodmake* the type
> > of experiences they have been *told* are expected of
> > them. 

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