On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:50 PM, coshlnx wrote:
--The bottom line is effectiveness, not effort in itself; but those
of us who appreciate the subtleties and effectiveness of TM, have
come to realize that it's effectiveness is coupled with a virtual
level of total effortless; at most, conceding that Vaj's point about
the mantras is only half true. Effort in TM is not due to the
technique, but rather a. incorrect practice, and b. unstressing.
But even if there were effort (say TM was more like a traditional
hard concentration technique)...; one must examine the results and
compare the results to the teachings of the rather mediocre Gurus,
such as Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, who has no single technique that can
come close to the effectiveness of TM, effort or not.
Never heard of Shamatha or even better, the sequence of Dzogchen
Semde? Oh well, fools rush in! I do believe we already have the clear
testament of at least one very experienced TM teacher on this precise
topic. Read: basic shamatha is clearer and cleaner than watered-down
Hindu mantra-based options (TM). Continue with your folly at your own
peril.
I do wish you the best either way.
You surely know (if you are intelligent enuff to comprehend it all)
that your posing is a facade (at best).
But then again, I do wonder if you "get it". Please feel free to
contact me for clarification either offlist or on the phone or in
person.
....the trig. man (ps. thanks for your e mail, Vaj, but I deleted it
before reading)...in anticipation of utter nonsense..
I posted the Buddhist quote and entitled it "effort required in
Buddhism" knowing that I would get a "rise" out of you...
I figured as much, based on the reams of ignorance you habitually
post, one would expect this level of utter ignorance from a desperate
ambulance chaser! But, alas, that's what you really are!
mission
accomplished!...
Ignorance accomplished. May the Kali Yuga fade despite your "efforts".
but for those requesting my point, simple: various
Gurus (such as certain Advaitins & direct transmission, "immediate
Enlightenment" Dzogchen masters) claim to be teachers of purely
effortless Sadhanas; but this is all talk, little substance. At the
end of the day's Sadhana, there's the next day, and the next, and the
next....etc; and all such techniques with varying degrees of effort
amount to an expenditure of energy in terms of commitment,
perseverance, and placing one's Sadhana above other concerns. That's
the effort. To conclude, TM is effortless but culturing the nerveous
system takes time.
Nervous system? Are you sure? Wasn't the truth a *subtle body*
"dumbed down" for a western buying public? Of course it was. That's
what scientific-spiritual materialism *does*: any beginning yogi
knows it's really about the nadis underlying the physical nervous
system, not the nervous systems itself! Were you born yesterday?
Probably not, but your arguments are as naive as those born of a baby
ambulance chaser!
Ineffective techniques and Gurus are practically
useless! Why even bother with such mediocrity?
Agreed! Esp. with those with those "yogis" claiming such but merely
"a complete mess, a supermarket, not quiet at all." (anecdotal quote
from the Shankaracharya of the South, describing the "Maharishi's"
consciousness).
Do the Pepsi/Coke
test, find out for yourself.
Of course, in thousands of people; one can find a few people who go
crazy in the process.
And of course in the McMeditation movement you protect you can find
many such victims, harmed for lifetimes, sadly spiralling downward in
the evolution of being. I'd recommend you try the Buddhist techniques
you claim to have some interest in...and then, having gained some new
experiential knowledge, decide. But until you have, in earnest, done
so--don't attempt to fool fools with your empty quotes, posts and
(sorry) bullshit.
But my guess is, rather than taking this experiential approach,
you'll instead decide to continue to cast empty stones at your
imaginary salt doll. I have no doubt you have many fans in this
endeavor.
