--- In [email protected], new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I made the original post because the Cather perspective seemed > interesting -- there was far more in the series than the > sexual parts. > > Searching, I found afew furhter interstingt articles. I am not a > Cathar scholar and cannot vouch for the valitity of these views. > > http://www.languedoc-france.info/12_cathars.htm > > ...Cathars believed in reincarnation and refused to eat meat > or other animal products.
Except fish. It's interesting, really. Maybe they just thought of fish as "fast-moving vegetables." :-) > They were strict about biblical injunctions - notably > those about living in poverty, not telling lies, not > killing and not swearing oaths. It was the latter, as much as anything else, that got them killed. The entire society at the time revolved around the swearing of oaths -- in trade, in business, in one's social and personal life, and they refused to participate. That, plus certain real "heresies" with regard to the Catholic dogma and a desire on the part of the French kings to take over their land (it was not France at the time) led to two Crusades and the creation of the Inquisition to "deal with them." > Basic Cathar tenets led to some surprising logical implications. > For example they largely regarded men and women as equals... It was an equality shared by the whole Languedoc region at the time, not just the Cathars. Women could own property in their own name in 12th century Languedoc, something that was not made legal in France as a whole until De Gaulle. > ...and had no doctrinal objection to contraception, euthanasia > or suicide. In some respects the Cathar and Catholic Churches > were polar opposites. For example the Cathar Church taught > that all non-procreative sex was better than any procreative > sex. This (and their feelings about suicide and euthenasia are almost certainly related to their extreme Dualist beliefs. The Cathars believed that the relative world was not only "not of God," but that it wasn't even *made* by God...it was an illusory product of the Demiurge, or Satan. There was no real concept of "liberation while in the body," only a limited form of identification with/bonding with God sometimes called gnosis. The whole *idea* for them was to get *beyond* the body, into the realm of pure spirit. That's why tales such as the Cathar priest fooling around with young girls are so silly. These were *not* a "fun lovin'" folk; they didn't believe in pursuing the delights of the body because, after all, in their view the bodies and their activities were all designed by Satan. Weird group of people...I am fascinated by them, but cannot identify much with their belief system, except the "live an ethical life" parts. > The Catholic Church taught - and still teaches - exactly the > opposite. Both positions produced interesting results. > Following their tenet, Catholics concluded that masturbation > was a far greater sin than rape, as mediaeval penitentials > confirm. Following their principles, Cathar could deduce > that sexual intercourse between man and wife was more > culpable than homosexual sex. > ... > > At the end of the extermination of the Cathars, the Roman > Church had convincing proof that a sustained campaign of > genocide can work. And how. Between the south of France and other areas in which the Cathars flourished, the Church murdered almost a quarter of a million fellow Christians. > It also had the precedent of an internal Crusade within > Christendom, and the machinery of the first modern police > state that could be wheeled out for the Spanish Inquisition, > and again for later Inquisitions and genocides. The Inquisition lasted for 600 years! You don't want to get me started on them. By comparison, the Nazis were slackers. > http://www.ordotempli.org/the_cathars.ht > The Cathars believed that matter was evil, and that Man (Humanity) > was an alien sojourner in an essentially evil world. Therefore, > the main aim of Man was to free his spirit, which was in its > nature good, and restore it with God. They had strict rules for > fasting... Sometimes to death, when one's death as a result of a wasting disease was a done deal, and there was nothing else to be done to save the person. > ...and were > strict vegetarians. The Cathars also allowed women to be perfecti, > i.e., priests. They did not believe in a Last Judgement, believing > instead that this material world would end only when the last of the > angelic souls had been released from it. They believed in > reincarnation, and that souls could take many lifetimes to reach > perfection before their final release. > > In many ways, Catharism represented total opposition to the Catholic > church, which they basically viewed as a large, pompous, and > fraudulent organisation which had lost its integrity and "sold out" > for power and money in this world. The Cathars could also not accept > the orthodox beliefs regarding the Eucharist, and other sacraments > of the church, as this implied that Christ would have actually lived > on this earth in the flesh, been crucified, and resurrected from > this evil, material world - something that they felt a divine, good > Being like Christ could never do in the first place, as God (i.e. > Christ, in the orthodox Christian view) would never exist in this > material world, only in Heaven. So, they rejected a fundamental > tenet of the orthodox church: the Incarnation. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathar > > The Cathars claimed there existed within mankind a spark of divine > light. This light, or spirit, had fallen into captivity within a > realm of corruption identified with the physical body and world. > This was a distinct feature of classical Gnosticism, of Manichaeism > and of the theology of the Bogomils. With important differences in each of their interpretations of the belief system, yes. By the way, as far as I can tell the language and phrasing used in the raps below is wrong. The "parent" belief system is called Dualism, with the different "flavors" of Dualism being the children. In other words, Catharism isn't a child of Gnosticism; both are children of Dualism. > This concept of the human condition within Catharism was most > probably due to direct and indirect historical influences from > these older (and sometimes also violently suppressed) > Gnostic movements. Dualism predates the first historical mentions of Gnosticism by some centuries. They're a fascinating group. Now if you want a glimpse into the plotline of what I'm writing about them, imagine your- self a Cathar priest, completely convinced of the truth of these teachings about the essential corruption of matter and the physical universe, who starts having UNITY exper- iences. Cognitive dissonance squared. :-)
