--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ignoring the slam, focusing on the only interesting > thing Judy said:
Nah, let's first just restore your slam at *me* and expose its disingenuity again--you know, the part you're so eager for folks to forget about: <snip> > I do find it amusing that the person who is first in > line to "bust" people here for being contradictory and > to claim that makes them unbelievable as sources of > information seems to hold as her favorite Maharishi > quote him contradicting himself big-time. :-) Not my "favorite Maharishi quote." As Barry knows, I've never had any problem with "knowledge is different in different states of consciousness"-type contradictions. As Barry also knows, what I "bust" him for are his waking-state contradictions (the ones he attempts to justify by claiming he changes constantly from one small self to another, or by invoking the "knowledge is different" premise as if his waking- state contradictions fell into that category). Perhaps he'll try one of those dodges to explain why he delivered a long rant last week claiming that I'm always the one who "starts it," then proceeded to attack me three or four times as soon as he was sure I wouldn't be back until the next week. > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> > wrote: > > > > As Barry also knows, what I "bust" him for are his > > waking-state contradictions (the ones he attempts > > to justify by claiming he changes constantly from > > one small self to another, or by invoking the > > "knowledge is different" premise as if his waking- > > state contradictions fell into that category). > > Do you honestly believe that the waking state > is only one state of consciousness, and thus > that "knowledge is different in different states > of consciousness doesn't apply to it?" Obviously, it depends on how you define "states of consciousness." For instance, "knowledge is different in different states of consciousness" does not apply to claiming I'm the person who always "starts it" one day and then only a week later making several posts attacking me, entirely unprovoked. > I'll be interested to hear your answer, because > I don't. I see the "waking state" more from a > Buddhist POV these days, and thus as having > "ten thousand states of mind," "States of mind" are not the same as "states of consciousness." all of them > different, all of them *as* different from one > another in terms of how the world appears when > viewed from that state of mind as Maharishi's > CC is from his "Waking State" or GC or UC. No, states of mind aren't different from each other the same way CC/GC/UC is from waking state. Category error. > Think back, Jude. I know you were young once, > and possibly...uh...overindulged in the evils of > alcohol. It's even remotely possible that once > or twice in your life you woke up with a screamin' > hangover, the kind that first makes you think > you're gonna die, and after a few minutes makes > you worry that maybe you won't. Nah, never had anything like that bad a hangover. > In such a state of waking state, do you actually > claim that the "reality" you saw around you while > hung over was the *same* reality that you see > after a nice, shiny meditation? (Assuming that > you *have* nice, shiny, meditations, that is.) > > Similarly, when you've been up for 36 hours working > on some deadline, and are so tired that you can > barely keep your eyes open, do you honestly believe > that your perceptions of the world around you are > the *same* as having just arisen from a good night's > sleep? (Well, in your case they might be, but I don't > think most people would say that they are.) Hangovers and tiredness both involve states of mind, not states of consciousness. After meditation, however, may well involve a different state of consciousness, for a while at least. > Knowledge (and the perception of "reality") are NOT > just different in Maharishi's dumbed-down "seven > states of consciousness." They're different in *all* > of the ten thousand states of mind. Different orders of difference. > Most humans, as far as I can tell, Which is not *nearly* far enough to justify the claim that follows (a side point, but worth noting in passing): only experience > about twenty or thirty of the different states of > mind available to them *within* the "waking state." > They bounce back and forth between the same old > same old to more same old same old, never venturing > past the familiar. > > But once you've bounced a little further on the > spectrum, and have experienced a few states of mind > *within* the waking state that are as different from > the same old same old and from one another as CC is > from GC or UC, you don't tend to believe that MMY's > "7 SOCs" is anywhere near accurate. False dichotomy. MMY's 7 states of consciousness represent more or less arbitrary points on a spectrum; most of us figured that out quite some time ago. And virtually everyone in the world knows there are many different states of mind within the waking state (although apparently for you this is a profound insight). But the differences between the points on the state- of-consciousness spectrum and the differences between waking states of mind are not, as noted, of the same order. The contradiction involved in claiming I'm the person who always "starts it" one day and then only a week later making several posts attacking me, entirely unprovoked, is a function of intellectually dishonest states of mind, not of different knowledge in different states of consciousness. > Feel free to respond with a long "gotta defend myself > at all costs and slam Barry at the same time" rant > if you'd like. If so, you'll find no response on my > end. But if you think you can actually address the > topic I've brought up, without rancor, I'd love to > hear your take on it. Until you learn to deal with your own same-old, same-old low-state-of-mind rancor, I'm afraid you're just going to have to put up with mine.
