If you spend time with a "guru" and you do not become Realized, guess what? They're not your Sadguru. You gain value from that association and perhaps in the scheme of things you needed to spend some time unstressing/purifying/completing-a-karmic-debt with that particular guru. Such a guru my be a Sadguru for one person and not a Sadguru for another.
--- Ron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > The only thing I can think of at the moment, after > reading your whole post, is that famous > quote, if at first you dont succeed, try and try > again. Possibly rather than lump the whole > Guru trip as something you have decided you were > bored with, as none of them did > anything for you, maybe one who has taken this > stance can consider that since they have > heard from others saying , yes, my Guru is this and > that, and yes the glories of the Guru-- > So then try and try again with a different Guru and > see if you run into one where a lasting > transformation occurs for you- and then therefore > you may continue with that path- but > again, it is up to you- could be- I tried 5 gurus, > got nothing, so all are no good, or not the > one for me so next- all up to you , "as Barry's > world turns" > > - In [email protected], TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "Ron" > <sidha7001@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB > <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > My post is about a topic one level further up > the > > > > logic tree -- why do you assume that someone > is a > > > > "guru," and *when* you do, why do you assume > that > > > > their opinion has any more weight than your > own, > > > > or anyone else's. > > > > > > ** Again, the real bottom line to it, after > using all sorts > > > of logical answers and discussions is that if it > is not known > > > with direct knowing, faith is needed, after > using your best > > > discression you have. The entire way you choose > to move forward, > > > with a Guru, without, each one in the end has to > make their own > > > choice and live with that choice > > > > Yup. I like -- and have no problem with -- the > fact > > that you realize that one's belief that someone is > > a guru and that their advice is valuable is a > matter > > of faith. That's how I see it as well. > > > > One *chooses* one's "authority figures," and IMO > one > > *assigns* authority to them. They don't > necessarily > > *have* any authority *or* knowledge that the > seeker > > doesn't assign to them. But if that assignment > helps > > the seeker, more power to them. > > > > > > That strikes me as a far more interesting > subject. > > > > > > > > Seems to me, from reading your posts, that > your > > > > definition of "guru" is twofold: 1) people > that you > > > > consider to be gurus, and 2) people that one > of the > > > > people you consider a guru have *told* you are > gurus. > > > > > > > > Please explain to us *why* you consider > someone a > > > > "guru," and *why* someone else should pay any > more > > > > attention to their opinions than to anyone > else's. > > > > > > **I think you have it right- it works out to my > discretion - I > > > lay out my own criteria for what a real guru is, > then see who > > > fills that prescription. OK, for example, > intuiton says Ramana > > > Maharishi is- now he gives answers to all the > questions > > > you are asking here- you can have a look at it > at > > > www.kundalinisupport.com, under the > > > section - the need for a guru > > > > I'll pass, thanks. While I admire Ramana Maharshi, > too, > > I don't really have much interest in any > "teachings" > > about the "need for a guru." With a few exceptions > (him > > being one of them), teachings that stress the > "need for > > a guru" have historically come from gurus and > traditions > > that have *profited financially* from that > teaching. > > > > On a more personal level, as we have discussed > before, > > I have no interest in gurus or guru figures, > *except* > > in terms of my overall study of spirituality and > how > > it is manifested in different groups. *That* I > find > > fascinating. Same thing here on FFL...I rarely > find > > myself interested in anything that Maharishi is > quoted > > as having said, or that some other teacher or > scripture > > is quoted as having said, but I'm *continually* > fascin- > > ated by what the *believers* in these teachers > and/or > > these scriptures have to say. > > > > *Especially* when there is some cognitive > dissonance > > raised by what they say they believe and how they > act. > > *That* fascinates me endlessly. > > > > > > I'm asking not to put you on the spot > personally, > > > > Ron (although it does, a little), but because > this > > > > approach to life and "truth" appears so often > on > > > > this forum. A great number of posts here can > be > > > > deconstructed and analyzed as saying, "X is > true > > > > because guru Y says it's true," or "X is true > > > > because scripture Y" says it's true. > > > > > > > > For those who *make* those kinds of posts, > please > > > > explain to me "Y" you believe that the Y's you > cite > > > > have more of a clue as to what constitutes > truth > > > > than anyone else. :-) > > > > > > I can offer you my Guru's general comments about > this: > > > > And sorry, but I'm really *not interested* in your > > guru's comments on this. I'm interested in *your* > > comments and thoughts on this, expressed in *your* > > words, not hers. There's a difference. > > > > I've spent too much of my life listening to the > words > > of someone who considered themselves a guru. I'm > bored > > senseless with it, and find little of interest in > any- > > thing they have to say. But I find myself > endlessly > > interested in what their *followers* have to say, > if > > one can get them to say it in their own words, > without > > a single reference to an authority figure or an > auth- > > ority scripture. > > > > The former is like listening to a parrot; I find > myself > > wanting to pop a cracker into the poster's mouth > after > > reading what they have to say. "Nablus want a > cracker?" :-) > > > > But when I read the posts that Curtis writes, or > that > > Edg writes, or that many other people write here, > posts > > that seem to come from their *own* experience, and > their > > *own* attempts to figure things out (as opposed to > having > > someone figure things out for them), I can feel a > strong > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! 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