--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Ron" <sidha7001@> wrote:
> >
> > Note I am not being a parakeet when I tell you that my 
> > experience is it is moving me faster to enlightenment. 
> > Let me put it this way, I feel this very stronly. It is 
> > giving experience of the things I hear are the signs of 
> > what enlightenment is. 
> 
> With all due respect, and with the fervent hope that
> you are correct, I think you're forgetting something,
> Ron. Your *belief* that you are "moving faster to
> enlightenment" is based on what you *have been told*.
> Your *belief* that these things are the "signs of
> what enlightenment is" are based on *what you have 
> been told*.
> 
> You have made a decision to *believe* what you have
> been told. That doesn't necessarily make it so.

I firmly stand by what I said- I am completely aware of the experience and how 
it can be 
viewed by others as it is here. This time, in light of a parakeet accusation, I 
paid close 
attention when i said that this is my experience. I am stateing specifically 
the ice cream 
tastes good- you beg to differ, telling me that just because I say it tastes 
good, well I am 
just believing it because I am told that , etc

No, the experience is concrete - as concrete as who you define who you are 
right now- so 
to the degree the concrete can be smashed with a sledge hammer, that is how 
comcrete 
my experience is that I wrote 
> 
> I sincerely hope it is, and that you are making all
> the progress that you feel you are, but from my point
> of view you could be experiencing normal, everyday
> bursts of energy that pretty much everyone on a 
> spiritual path would be noticing if they had been
> told to pay attention to them and "weight" them and
> assign them value, and to *interpret* them as progress
> towards enlightenment.

The knowing in this case is my own direct experience, no need to be told 
anything. In this 
case, I wasn't asking the Guru, I was telling the Guru what it is
> 
> In a TM context, for example, these things would be
> considered just another experience, and no weight
> would be given to them. 

What things? It is a state of consciousness known to me through direct 
experience- 
directly related to the kundalini- I am paying attention as I write that this 
is not a parakeet 
speaking since you are throwing this accusation out, for which I would not deny 
when it is 
past my own experience- will let you know in this letter when I am reporting 
what the 
guru has to say as compared with my own experience for which I tell the Guru 
what is 
there, so far in this letter, that is the case.

Maybe in my past posts, similar claims I am makeing above are interpreted as 
what I am 
told verses what I concretely experience. No, the above is direct experience 
and it is 
beyond what I had in TM, however, cant speak for others


Same thing in many Buddhist
> traditions. But in the path you've chosen, these
> experiences have been described as special, as mean-
> ingful. That makes you special and your experiences
> meaningful. 

They are just what is there, what took and is taking place- I am not in a 
position to label it 
because then it means just where i am with regard to enlightenment, it should 
even mean I 
am enlightened in order to box up and label just where I am with the journey, I 
dont know 
what enlightenment is like, I have only heard about it
> 
> > I reported in using the term everything is falling away 
> > before i noticed it to be a common term used because 
> > this is something many in my path are experiencing.
> 
> And have been *told* that they "should* experience.
> And have been *told* that having these experiences
> makes them a little special, and indicates that they
> are making rapid progress towards enlightenment. So
> are they going to put a bit of emphasis on *having*
> these experiences? Well, duh.

I dont follow you exactly but make no mistake about it, there is both guidence 
and faith on 
my path, and as I said beyond my own experience, I can only report what those 
claiming 
enlightenment say- that is being a parakeet for the points- that evil word 
parakeet.

One can also be a parakeet in throwing the parakeet accusation out- for it is 
the case that  
it is belief for all until enlightenment, and there is, even in sincere ones on 
the path, a 
mouthing off of what the guru says.

to the degree that it is actualized, that part is not reading or hearing about 
what the ice 
crea tastes like, it is tasting it. Then to one that hasn't, they can accuse 
one of thinking 
they are tasting it but not. This again is why I was mindfull above when I 
stated that 
anyone opposing the points I stated are giving me an argument that what I am 
saying I am 
tasting is wrong- I was very mindfull of what I wrote as my own experience- 
again, yes, 
my direct experience is knowing it is in the direction of enlightenment- it is 
as real as the 
report of what cookies and cream tastes like (how real is the transcient?)
> 
> > Any opinion that disagrees with what I just said is like 
> > one telling me that I am wrong about the ice cream tasting 
> > sweet. 
> 
> No, it's merely reminding you that you were *told*
> that the ice cream would taste sweet, and that ice
> cream is the pathway to enlightenment. 

That doesn't
> necessarily mean that eating ice cream would get you 
> enlightened. It might just make you fat.  :-)

Look, it doesn't mean that since you have decided that what I report as 
experience is in 
fact not but rather I am told this- Is there any room that I may be quite 
right? or is it 
written in stone that no matter what I report as experience, you see it as I am 
a parakeet? 
That makes you a parakeet- you dont even have to read what I wrote or listen to 
what i 
have to say, because no matter what it is, I am in the favorite group of being 
a parakeet, 
mouthing off what I was told without the expereicences to back it up. Well, I 
will never win 
will I? But I have won, for I know what I have - your comments telling me what 
I have dont 
really have an impact, and I dont know that anything I have to say impacts your 
thinking 
beyong you packaging me into the parakeet group, and so it remains
> 
> Here's a test for you. Is it *possible* that kundalini
> experiences mean absolutely *nothing* about one's
> proximity to enlightened states of mind, and that they
> are Just Another Phenomenon, one that shouldn't be
> "weighted" more than any other?

it could be, it depends on many factors
> 
> If you bristled at that idea, then I'd suggest that
> what you've been told about kundalini and its importance
> might have been aimed more at your ego than at freeing 
> yourself from it.
>
What is your background with Kundalini?

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