We buddhists? What is this about?
empty
TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- In [email protected], "matrixmonitor"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --Right, but Byron Katie is a Neo-Advaitin, and if we go too
> far into that realm, there's no karma, no people, no suffering
> (in fact, nothing!). Nope - Buddhism as a whole has more
> compassion.
While I agree wholeheartedly, I find myself more interested
in the seeming contradiction that I stumbled upon last night
in the one-liner that made Rory *lol*, but which he didn't
deal with. I've pasted in the whole exchange below, with
all of its context restored, because I'm interested in hear-
ing the fans of advaita (neo- or not) or Byron Katie explain
to me why what seems like a contradiction to me isn't one.
> > > > OK, I asked Swami G - does everyone go through the Kundalini
> > > > Journey. I asked because based on my own experience with it,
> > > > I can't imagine that it is possible without it.
> > >
> > > I think that this is the most accurate and telling
> > > statement in your post, Ron, and the one that is
> > > most relevant to Fairfield Life and the majority
> > > of posts here about spiritual "progress." It's
> > > about *personal experience*, which is valid, and
> > > about *projection of that experience onto others*,
> > > which IMO is not.
> > >
> > > On this forum we've had people say that because
> > > *they* went through a period of anger at some
> > > spiritual teacher who disappointed them, everyone
> > > who criticizes a spiritual teacher is also feeling
> > > anger. <snip>
> >
> > FWIW I still support my original premise: If we criticise another
> > (particularly if the other isn't even present, and we're
> > criticising them to a 3rd party), we generally *are* coming from
> > a place of pain (hurt/anger), whether or not we are consciously
> > aware of it at that moment. This is because we are "shoulding"
> > all over them :-) -- expecting them to be other than they are,
> > and judging them for not living up to our expectations of what
> > they "should" be or do. All of this stems from the core belief
> > and illusion that what we are criticising is outside of ourself
> > -- a position that is fraught with addictive pain. Practicing a
> > little Byron-Katiesque Inquiry will soon sober us up and show
> > us otherwise :-)
>
> Now let me get this straight. This sobering up
> and seeing things otherwise, that's something
> that we "should" be doing?
The question is, "How is doing 'the work,' Byron Katie-
style, *not* fraught with addictive pain?" It seems to
me that what Rory describes above is very much a form
of moodmaking -- starting with the assumption that one
*should* not be criticizing other aspects of ones Self
and acting accordingly, *in the pursuit of a desire*.
The desire in this case is to have no expectations of
others in terms of their behavior, and to see them as
other aspects of one's Self, if I've gotten what
Rory is saying. However, the desire to behave like that
is an expectation. One *practices* "a little Byron
Katiesque Inquiry" and intellectually convinces one's
self that it is relating to others on a non-judgmental
level. But it seems to me that the very *process* of
doing this is by definition a judgment upon one's *own*
self, a desire to *change* the way it's behaving and
"should" it into another form of behavior, an attempt
to moodmake it into acting the way that it "should."
I'm not particularly down on Byron Katie, or advaita,
or Rory...I'm just intrigued by the proponents of these
philosophies' ability to ignore what seems to me to be
a raging contradiction. If the practice they're recom-
mending to get beyond judgment requires "the work,"
isn't that *by definition* a form of judgment about
judgment?
And please, anyone who feels like answering, don't come
back with "a thorn to remove a thorn." That may work on
TMers who've been trained to salivate at the sound of
Maharishi's voice, but it ain't gonna cut the mustard
intellectually. What I'm asking is whether the Byron
Katie "thorn" is just a form of moodmaking, of training
one's self into acting a certain way ("acting" in all
senses of that word) because they've been convinced
that they "should" act that way? Sounds like classic
moodmaking to me.
How is "the work" gonna help you determine the proper
course of action when the other person you're trying
not to be judgmental about is holding a gun on you, and
acting a whole lot like a madman on crack who is more
interested in shooting you and your family just to see
how you fall than he is in your wallet?
We Buddhists might have compassion for the poor, drugged-
out guy, but we'd also do our best to kick the sucker in
the nuts and get the gun away from him. The way I'm read-
ing Rory's comments, he'd see that the guy is coming from
a place of hurt/pain, relate it to his own hurt and pain,
and say, "LOL. You're just another aspect of my Self, and
everything is OK." :-)
Question, short form: Is Katie's "the work," whether
valuable or not, just another form of moodmaking?
I don't know. I'm just wondering. Those of you who know
more, please explain it to me.
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