I didn't phrase things quite as I intended. I quite agree that the installable Fedora should be a configuration published and supported by the Fedora committers. I should have phrased this as a separation of concerns to address this thread.
Many people talk about Fedora as a product and try to push as much functionality into the core as possible. We have not been able to get enough mind share for integrated-but-not-core components that should be part of a supported package "Fedora as a product," made up of the repository component and other pre-integrated components in a supported execution environment. This would be an exemplar implementation. Some of the parts are packaged this way now but other key parts are missing such as a Web server integration (likely a Apache solution), a resolver, SIP builder, ingest workflow and an integrated search engine plus an expanded set of useful objects. The components in the exemplar package are certainly open to debate (and full realization of the lack of volunteer time with myself being the worst example). Maybe the current package is just right. However, I suggest continuing on the current path towards creating a Fedora ecosystem (for now) of Maven components (and objects) using the installable Fedora package as an exemplar but beginning to deal with concerns for enterprise-scale implementations. But with perhaps a little more focus on the refactoring to ease integration. We tend to define a Fedora release as a release of the "packaged installable Fedora." Perhaps the sense should start a shift to the Maven modules/projects as the mark of a release. I realize, to get mind share, products (solutions) have the advantage over technology. Maybe, focusing on the packaging with more integrated components is the way to go. Maybe not. See, I can argue both sides of the issue. But I am concerned that, if there is no real way to distinguish Fedora from the pack, the world is moving on (and not in a good way). As voiced in a separate response to this thread, there is a combinatorial problem with the possible integrations. However, for Fedora to grow it must scale and must support integrations into enterprise environments because of its stated purpose. The committers cannot take this on alone. I certainly planned to work on this and have been interrupted by "those who pay the bills" more than once. As noted, OSGI may be a key enabler and Spring certainly is one. Actually, any good decoupling strategy combined with defined or defacto standards helps a lot. Its not so much a technology problem any more (though there is plenty of work to do) but the finding a way to build a bigger ecosystem. Perhaps it will shock folks, but I see Fedora as a kind of universal SOA (both Web architecture and other kind) middleware that just happens to have a repository component. So is iRODS by the way. Efforts like CDLs Merritt (with iRODS) have pushed "micro-services" into the mind share but I fail to see the difference between "micro-services" and other SOA (please don't equate SOA with SOAP). Libraries and public search engines (e.g. Google) have almost entirely abandoned the repository for better indexing. And lots if scientists (and others) think backup solves the preservation problem. As we start to think about Fedora 4.0, ask the question "What is Fedora?" It's owned by the committers and the community now so we are responsible for answering the question. Engagement with application developers using Fedora (as was suggested by the thread) is key to making the Fedora ecosystem easier to integrate but also a source of solutions. I know Fedora Create was supposed to help (and I note the recent postings by Matt Zumwalt so its still alive). I know I am preaching to the choir as there has always been good talk and good will among the committers for figuring out how to incorporate the community. And I am proud of how the committers care for the Fedora community so much. I guess the provocation on enterprise integration got me on my soap box. Also, the GSOC work. I have tried three times and now failed three times to get significant investment to fulfill Fedora's build-out. Maybe, four times will be the charm. Time to write some more proposals (and ask others to build some time for Fedora or components into their funding). I guess its time to "carpe diem" once again. This has been a fun thread for me. But eot on this rant. -- Dan Davis On 8/12/2011 1:08 PM, Chris Wilper wrote: > Hi Dan, > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Daniel Davis > <dda...@fedora-commons.org> wrote: >> [..] >> Part of this may be the view that Fedora is a "product" to be deployed >> rather than a set of libraries to be built into a "product" by a third >> party. And the derived product is deployed into an execution >> environment. Supported by whoever built the derived product. If so, >> future refactorings of Fedora could keep this in mind --- to optimize to >> support build processes and largely drop the notion of a deployment >> (installer) altogether. The modularity has kind of been going in that >> direction for a while anyway. >> [..] > I think there's room for both a standalone, deployable Fedora > distribution as well as third-party Fedora-embedding solutions that do > additional stuff (eSciDoc, Hydra, Islandora). The move to Spring is > certainly starting to open up even more possibilities for bundling. > But I still feel like a standalone deployable Fedora war remains an > important option for people (developers building bigger systems, > mostly). > > - Chris > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > FREE DOWNLOAD - uberSVN with Social Coding for Subversion. > Subversion made easy with a complete admin console. Easy > to use, easy to manage, easy to install, easy to extend. > Get a Free download of the new open ALM Subversion platform now. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/wandisco-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-commons-developers mailing list > Fedora-commons-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-developers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE DOWNLOAD - uberSVN with Social Coding for Subversion. Subversion made easy with a complete admin console. Easy to use, easy to manage, easy to install, easy to extend. Get a Free download of the new open ALM Subversion platform now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/wandisco-dev2dev _______________________________________________ Fedora-commons-developers mailing list Fedora-commons-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-developers
