Since one would rather not put any unnecessary burden on people, I'm inclined to suggest cautiously that the defaulting functionality be left in. Anyone who is directly creating a content model (instead of using a wizard interface) will probably be aware of the need for correct RDF and comfortable supplying it, but other folks shouldn't be asked to do that.
--- A. Soroka Digital Research and Scholarship R & D the University of Virginia Library On Oct 29, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Steve Bayliss wrote: > Just one thing to add re the autogeneration of a "default" content model > assertion - we do currently do this for Fedora objects that don't have a > RELS-EXT datastream or don't specify a content model in RELS-EXT. So maybe > we should also remove this functionality? > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: aj...@virginia.edu [mailto:aj...@virginia.edu] >> Sent: 29 October 2010 14:59 >> To: Support and info exchange list for Fedora users. >> Subject: Re: [fcrepo-user] Cmodel discovery? >> >> >> My votes below. >> >> Another question: does the new Enhanced Content Model >> functionality expect to find or rely on this triple? >> >>> (a) when ingesting content model objects, should we enforce >> a RELS-EXT assertion to a valid content model for content >> model objects? or >> >> Yes. _Any_ Fedora object should have a content model >> discoverable through that same old hasModel relationship, and >> that includes content models themselves. >> >>> (b) should we create a Resource Index triple identifying >> the fedora-system:ContentModel-3.0 as a default for content >> model objects when none is specified in RELS-EXT? >> >> No. The RI should reflect as closely as possible the actual >> state of the objects, if for no other reason than so that >> folks like Bill can turn up the kinds of things he just did >> (which started this whole conversation). >> >>> (c) should we stop CMA features working (eg the >> dissemination execution) if the object identified as the >> content model does not itself identify through RELS-EXT that >> it is a content model object? >> >> Yes. If the CM in question doesn't identify itself as a CM, >> then the only way we know that it is one is when a >> disseminator gets executed "through" it. (Or until any use of >> Enhanced Content Model functionality that might turn up the >> same fact.) That strikes me as unpleasantly "dynamic" for the >> kinds of purposes Fedora meets. While that kind of >> "duck-typing" in the repository could be very useful, it >> could be very dangerous, and I suspect that most Fedora users >> will more likely find it to be the latter. >> >> --- >> A. Soroka >> Digital Research and Scholarship R & D >> the University of Virginia Library >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Steve Bayliss wrote: >> >>> Hi Bill >>> >>> Thanks for that - particularly confirming that >> dissemination executions work even when the content model >> object doesn't assert its own content model correctly. >>> >>> I wonder if we should add some kind of validation for this >> - particularly as there could be an expectation that one >> should be able to run these sorts of queries to determine >> what content models exist. Or whether we we should (in a >> similar manner to the "default" object content model) >> behind-the-scenes create this triple identifying the default >> content model for content model objects. >>> >>> So general questions for the list: >>> >>> (a) when ingesting content model objects, should we enforce >> a RELS-EXT assertion to a valid content model for content >> model objects? or >>> (b) should we create a Resource Index triple identifying >> the fedora-system:ContentModel-3.0 as a default for content >> model objects when none is specified in RELS-EXT? >>> (c) should we stop CMA features working (eg the >> dissemination execution) if the object identified as the >> content model does not itself identify through RELS-EXT that >> it is a content model object? >>> >>> Or.... (d) do nothing! >>> >>> (I think there are probably issues at least with a and b - >> how do we tell that an object is a content model object? >> Surely the RELS-EXT assertion is the way to do that, but the >> scenario is one where this assertion is not present.) >>> >>> Regards >>> Steve >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Parod [mailto:bill-pa...@northwestern.edu] >>> Sent: 28 October 2010 15:56 >>> To: Support and info exchange list for Fedora users. >>> Subject: Re: [fcrepo-user] Cmodel discovery? >>> >>> Steve, >>> >>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 3:09 AM, Steve Bayliss wrote: >>> >>>> All Content Model objects *should* contain the triple that Adam has >>>> identified, the triple isn't generated automatically >> (however if an object >>>> declares no content model, then a triple will be generated >> identifying the >>>> "default" content model - >> info:fedora/fedora-system:FedoraObject-3.0). >>>> >>> >>> Thanks very much for confirming the use of >> <fedora-model:hasModel >> rdf:resource="info:fedora/fedora-system:ContentModel-3.0"/> >> as convention. >>> >>> Some of our cmodels do not assert it, so I will update them >> to do so. >>> >>>> I'm not sure if the CMA works correctly if a Content Model >> object fails to >>>> declare that triple, perhaps that's what is going on in >> this case? It would >>>> be useful to confirm if (a) the RELS-EXT of the CModel >> objects do indeed >>>> fail to declare that triple and (b) if any objects >> belonging to that CModel >>>> "work" correctly wrt object methods etc. >>>> >>> >>> Yes, they do work, at least as regards CMA binding for >> dissemination execution. >>> >>>> If you want to query for content models *in use* by objects in the >>>> repository, you could use the query >>>> >>>> select $o >>>> from <#ri> >>>> where $s <info:fedora/fedora-system:def/model#hasModel> $o >>>> >>>> and use the "Force Distinct" option in the risearch web >> interface (or the >>>> distinct=on query parameter if calling the risearch >> service directly). >>>> >>> >>> That's what I'm doing now, though since your confirmation >> that cmodel objects should assert <fedora-model:hasModel >> rdf:resource="info:fedora/fedora-system:ContentModel-3.0"/>, >> I'll update all our cmodels to do so. I'm then inclined to >> use Adam's original query suggestion as it seems more efficient: >>> >>> select $cmodel >>> from <#ri> >>> where $cmodel <fedora-model:hasModel> >> "info:fedora/fedora-system:ContentModel-3.0" >>> >>> Thanks very much, >>> >>> - Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: aj...@virginia.edu [mailto:aj...@virginia.edu] >>>>> Sent: 22 October 2010 16:10 >>>>> To: Support and info exchange list for Fedora users. >>>>> Subject: Re: [fcrepo-user] Cmodel discovery? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bill-- >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps we're seeing CModels created by different means >>>>> ending up with different RELS-EXT contents. I'm seeing that >>>>> triple in all of our CModels, but because some of them were >>>>> taken from external sources (e.g. a JPEG2000 CModel from the >>>>> LANL Djatoka project) I don't know whether this triple is >>>>> normatively produced or is just a matter of convention. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps one of the Fedora developers can speak to this? >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> A. Soroka >>>>> Digital Research and Scholarship R & D >>>>> the University of Virginia Library >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 10:59 AM, Bill Parod wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Adam, >>>>>> >>>>>> I tried it (with slightly different syntax): >>>>>> select $cmodel >>>>>> from <#ri> >>>>>> where $cmodel <fedora-model:hasModel> >>>>> <info:fedora/fedora-system:ContentModel-3.0> >>>>>> >>>>>> and found some of our cmodels but not all, which leads me >>>>> to think that you've not only provided a query solution but >>>>> revealed something some of our cmodels RELS-EXT are lacking: >>>>>> >>>>>> <fedora-model:hasModel >>>>> rdf:resource="info:fedora/fedora-system:ContentModel-3.0"/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Is that indeed the convention? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks much! >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 9:40 AM, aj...@virginia.edu wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill-- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If I'm not mistaken, you'll find an RDF statement: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <fedora-model:hasModel >>>>> rdf:resource="info:fedora/fedora-system:ContentModel-3.0"/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in every cModel object. Might that be a query that can do >>>>> the job? Something like: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> select $cmodel >>>>>>> from <#ri> >>>>>>> where $cmodel <fedora-model:hasModel> >>>>> "info:fedora/fedora-system:ContentModel-3.0" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> A. Soroka >>>>>>> Digital Research and Scholarship R & D >>>>>>> the University of Virginia Library >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Bill Parod wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm working on a repository introspection service that >>>>> provides a repository profile from the point of view of >>>>> cmodels and services. The motivation is to obtain a concise >>>>> picture of what's in the repository, provide export tools to >>>>> aid in selective migration, and to generate model/service >>>>> documentation from the models and services themselves. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My question is this: Is there a way, using Fedora REST >>>>> APIs or triple store queries to obtain a list of the pids of >>>>> cmodel objects in the repository? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm currently using the triple store to query for cmodel >>>>> / service pairings: >>>>>>>> select $cmodel $service >>>>>>>> from <#ri> >>>>>>>> where $cmodel <fedora-model:hasService> $service >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But that will only find cmodels that have associated >>>>> services. Ours tend to fall into that category but I'd like >>>>> to do it in a way that is more general. I'm not very >>>>> experienced with using the tripe store, so I'm hoping there's >>>>> a way there to do this, though that seems doubtful from what >>>>> I'm seeing in cmodel RELS-EXT. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I know I can do a sql query on the database ( select >>>>> distinct cModel from modelDeploymentMap) , but I'd of course >>>>> like to avoid cutting in at that level, and I'm not sure >>>>> cmodels without services are represented there anyway. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there a way to discover cmodels using the APIs or the >>>>> triple store? Or is it best to put something specific in >>>>> cmodel RELS-EXT for that purpose? That's what I'm about to >>>>> do, but thought I'd ask first. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bill Parod >>>>>>>> Library Technology Division - Enterprise Systems >>>>>>>> Northwestern University Library >>>>>>>> bill-pa...@northwestern.edu >>>>>>>> 847 491 5368 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ---------------- >>>>>>>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All >>>>> Innovators-North America contest >>>>>>>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in >>>>> U.S. and Canada >>>>>>>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, >>>>> nearly $6M in marketing >>>>>>>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and >>>>> Publish to Ovi Store >>>>>>>> >>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev_____________________________ >>>>> __________________ >>>>>>>> Fedora-commons-users mailing list >>>>>>>> Fedora-commons-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-users >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ---------------- >>>>>>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All >>>>> Innovators-North America contest >>>>>>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in >>>>> U.S. and Canada >>>>>>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, >>>>> nearly $6M in marketing >>>>>>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and >>>>> Publish to Ovi Store >>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Fedora-commons-users mailing list >>>>>>> Fedora-commons-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-users >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill Parod >>>>>> Library Technology Division - Enterprise Systems >>>>>> Northwestern University Library >>>>>> bill-pa...@northwestern.edu >>>>>> 847 491 5368 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ---------------- >>>>>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All >>>>> Innovators-North America contest >>>>>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in >>>>> U.S. and Canada >>>>>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly >>>>> $6M in marketing >>>>>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish >>>>> to Ovi Store >>>>>> >>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev_____________________________ >>>> __________________ >>>>> Fedora-commons-users mailing list >>>>> Fedora-commons-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-users >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> -------------- >>>> -- >>>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All >> Innovators-North America contest >>>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in >> U.S. and Canada >>>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, >> nearly $6M in marketing >>>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and >> Publish to Ovi Store >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Fedora-commons-users mailing list >>>> Fedora-commons-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-users >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------------- >>>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All >> Innovators-North America contest >>>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in >> U.S. and Canada >>>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, >> nearly $6M in marketing >>>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and >> Publish to Ovi Store >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Fedora-commons-users mailing list >>>> Fedora-commons-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-users >>> >>> Bill Parod >>> Library Technology Division - Enterprise Systems >>> Northwestern University Library >>> bill-pa...@northwestern.edu >>> 847 491 5368 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------------- >>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All >> Innovators-North America contest >>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in >> U.S. and Canada >>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly >> $6M in marketing >>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish >> to Ovi Store >>> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev_____________________________ > __________________ >> Fedora-commons-users mailing list >> Fedora-commons-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-users > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-commons-users mailing list > Fedora-commons-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-users > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-commons-users mailing list > Fedora-commons-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev _______________________________________________ Fedora-commons-users mailing list Fedora-commons-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fedora-commons-users
