Amani...
I don't know how things work in Canada but I KNOW that were I a lawyer I
would get more cooperation from my vet.... As Vets begin to charge more
and more and large corporations begin to buy up small practices here in
the states the model is now moving toward the downside of human
medicine.... discrete scheduling time periods to maximize profits...
little time to " discuss" options and an aversion to moving on to topics
that could cause spending extra time..... As prices rise so do owner
resentments at not being " cared about" or listened to just as in human
medicine..... and that( at least in the US) is when lawsuits are most
likely to be filed.... Most of us can forgive a vet making a mistake
when we feel he/she has put real thought and concern into a Tx plan but
putting our pets at risk because an alteration in plan causes him to
have to step outside his comfort zone( and spend some extra time
thinking) or simply doesn't appear to care.. That doesn't fly when we
are paying Hundreds of dollars to save our precious pets..
Malpractice lawyer pet owners ( or patients in human medicine) are
likely surreptitiously treated with great care when moving through
waters fraught with potential for terminal errors..... and likely get a
bit more cooperation from their vets... I am glad for your cats that
you ARE in the profession that you now are...
So... it is , in my opinion, both good fortune and a dose of deferential
caution that gets you the kind of cooperation you get from your
vet???? Yeah.... I'm pretty jaded at this point : ) That is why I
HAD to retire a bit early....
On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 02:28 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
(Amani Oakley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 18:28:16 +0000
From: Amani Oakley To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" Subject: Re:
[Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on
Stanzolol
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Either I had a brain fart or my computer did an automatic spelling
correction. Sorry about that Ardy.
Amani
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
Of Amani Oakley
Sent: October-04-16 2:26 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on
Stanzolol
Argue, I wholeheartedly agree with your observation and that is
exactly what I find bizarre about this. Vets will not question us if
we want to put our cats down, but they will treat us like criminals,
trafficking in some sort of forbidden commodity, if we want to try
different things in a desperate situation.
The other night, I was watching "Awakenings" again with Robin
Williams, and I contemplated the thought that what the real-life
neurologist did (on whom the movie was based) would be frowned upon by
the vets many of us have encountered. He basically experimented on
people who were in encephalophathic comas from sleeping sickness, and
tried a new drug out on them, on many many times the dose that had
been used in Parkinson's patients (L-Dopa). Unfortunately, the body
builds up an immunity to the drug, so the people eventually succumbed
and slipped back into comas, but my training an my logic is consistent
with that. If you are treating a patient with much to lose, you
obviously need to be cognizant of things like significant side
effects. However, if a patient is doing very poorly or even facing
certain death, then trying anything which might be helpful, is not
unethical.
This is why, when I was faced with high liver enzymes when I had put
Zander on the Winstrol, I refused to discontinue the Winstrol. My
reasoning was, to what end would I discontinue the Winstrol? If I
stopped, he would die. If I didn't stop, then yes, there was a chance
of liver damage, and I would have to deal with that when the current,
most urgent crisis (low red cells, lack of appetite, etc.) was brought
under control. If he didn't make it through the treatment with the
WInstrol, then I wouldn't have to deal with the liver damage. If he
did, I would deal with the liver damage next.
I don't understand vets refusing to use Winstrol when there are little
or no other options. I don't understand vets who won't try something
like Doxycycline, when, usually at worst, they don't think it will
work - ie - no effect. Okay. They could be right. Try it for two
weeks, check the blood work and see. Thank God my vets are willing to
allow me to try these options and measure/measure the effects.
Amani
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
Of Ardy Robertson
Sent: October-03-16 10:38 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on
Stanzolol
I am blown away that they are perfectly willing and eager to put the
cat to sleep but not willing to try the doxycycline that will block
the virus from replicating. We fight for our kitties' lives and have
to also fight the vets to get the medicine they need, and we have to
tread lightly when we find a vet willing to prescribe the Winstrol
that they need. I wish we could just buy it over the counter.
Ardy
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
Of Sherri Godschalk
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 4:53 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on
Stanzolol
Thanks Amani.
I called the vets office right after I read what you wrote below and
asked again for the Doxycycline and he insisted she did not need it. I
am just going to have to hope that Bogey continues to get better on
the regiment we are on. I feel very thankful for my vet that he
prescribing the Winstrol. I hope it is enough.
Your boy Zander must have been one strong cat to recover from how sick
he was. It sounds like you really monitored him and gave him the best
treatment. Your advise and knowledge of this awful disease and the
benefits and pitfalls of trying to treat it is invaluable to all of us
who are caring for these lovely creatures.
I read this messaging board and feel so bad that cat owners who
desperately need this drug cannot get it. I believe without a doubt
that as fast as Bogey's counts were dropping, she would probably not
still be with me today without it. I am sure the stigma attached to it
keeps a lot of vets from prescribing it or maybe they are just
uneducated about it. My other vet wouldn't even discuss a transfusion
as she was certain that nothing could help us for very long. She was
quite intent on me putting this cat down and just wanted to wash her
hands of us it seemed. So the stigma isn't just about this treatment,
it is around the disease itself. Her statement "There are plenty of
other healthy cats that need good homes" is proof enough of that.
How frustrating for all of us.
Thank you again for your insight.
From: Felvtalk > on behalf of Amani Oakley >
Reply-To: >
Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 2:29 PM
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" >
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
Hi Sherri
Keep up with the bloodwork. Good for you. Because I did Zander's
bloodwork weekly, I was able to watch his counts very carefully as
well, and this is why I am so firm on what I saw that worked and what
I saw that didn't work. Keeping a close eye on the bloodwork will help
you immediately point to the effects of the medication, and I am sure
that the stall you got on the improvement of the bloodwork is solely
because he removed her off the Winstrol. I saw this drop or stagnation
every time I even tried to wean Zander down from 2 mg a day to 1 mg a
day, for the first 10 months, but I was starting at much worse blood
results than you were. Zander's haematocrit was 10 when I started the
Winstrol.
Interesting about your vet's background. That may well explain his
openness to using Winstrol where so many others refuse. Those in
athletics are well aware of the amazing body building, muscle
building, strength building properties of Winstrol, and the fact that
the rumoured side-effects are very very exaggerated - probably to try
and scare off athletes from using the stuff. Once you use it, you find
out it really doesn't have all those terrible side effects, and it
makes a real difference to improving body strength. That is why I have
come to the conclusion that, very sadly, we are being denied access to
Winstrol, not because it doesn't work or because it has bad side
effects, but because in the media it is BAD to take steroids if you
are an athlete. Why that should affect cats, or elderly people with
osteoporosis for that matter, is way way beyond me and very
frustrating.
With respect to the platelets, my concern remains that the low
platelet count and the high lymphocyte count show that the virus is
still actively attacking cells. My theory is that while the Winstrol
is working to build up bone marrow and allow it to regenerate the lost
red cells, the virus is still attacking. That is why I believe that
the Winstrol on its own will not be enough, and you need to
double-team the virus with the Doxycycline on the one side,
interfering with the ability of the virus to reproduce and the
Winstrol on the other hand, working to repair some of the damage
caused by the virus.
I don't think there is anything that directly will give you a boost on
the platelets, and my concern is that when the platelets drop so low,
you have a real risk of internal bleeding. I don't know what else to
suggest.
Amani
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
Of Sherri Godschalk
Sent: September-30-16 2:11 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
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