Thank you everyone. Vet was impressed with all your e-mails and agreed to get me the Winstrol and other two meds. We’re trying to get it from a local pharmacy but if not, Roadrunner apparently has it.
One question - how soon after I start this drug regimen should I have bloodwork done on Flaqui to see if it’s working? Maribel "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Mohandas Ghandi > On May 12, 2018, at 5:32 PM, Ardy Robertson <ar...@centurytel.net> wrote: > > Hi Maribel, > I totally agree about Zander’s Protocol being your best option, and that it > needs to be started as soon as possible. One thing I might add, if it was not > mentioned in the comments by Amani and Sandy is that if your vet will order > it for you, they might not know of a source for it. Your vet can prescribe > and order it online at www.diamondbackdrugs.com -- this is a large > compounding pharmacy in Arizona, and they will ship it anywhere. Their phone > number is 866-578-4420 if you want to call them. The Winstrol comes in > several flavors, and forms. I believe it was around $40 when I used it for my > Tigger. Best wishes to you and Flaqui. > Ardy > > > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of > Maribel Piloto > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 10:38 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp > > Thank you guys. Very encouraging. Now let’s see if I can get my vet to > prescribe the Winstrol. I’m sending him all the things you have written. > > Maribel > > "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." > -Mohandas Ghandi > > On May 10, 2018, at 11:02 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote: > > Thank you Sandy. You saved me from repeating what I have posted so very often > now. > > Mirabel, regarding the Aranesp, it is a product which mimics the effects of > erythropoietin. I do not believe it will assist because erythropoietin tells > the bone marrow to produce more red cells. With FeLV, it infects the cells in > the bone marrow which produce all three cell lines (red cells, white cells, > platelets). The cells are taken over and destroyed by the virus, which means > that the bone marrow can no longer produce red cells, white cells and/or > platelets. The erythropoietin or Aranesp is speaking to these cells and > telling them to churn out more red cells, but the bone marrow cells can no > longer do that. My experience with the Winstrol is that after my cat had the > very worst results (HAEMATOCRIT OF FIVE!!!, ZERO % RETICULOCYTES, etc.) and > AFTER I had given him several bouts of blood transfusions, the Winstrol > turned back on the bone marrow and he began producing red cells, white cells > and platelets again. > > Amani > > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sandy > Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM > To: Maribel Piloto; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp > > This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but your answer > lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this will work if your > vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose - BUT you and the vet need > to act immediately. - good luck. You will probably get more responses - Sandy > W > > > > Winstrol – 1 mg twice a day > > Doxycycline – 1/5 to ¼ tablet (100 mg) twice a day > > Prednisolone – ½ 5 mg tablet, twice a day > > If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow > moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of > the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ¼ tablet of > apometocloprimide. > > If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low – like below 5-8, you might > consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and > kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely > increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might > also increase the liver enzymes faster. > > Hope this helps! Amani > > > > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary > Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV > > Amani, > > Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know they > must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them. > > Thanks, Gary > > On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote: > > Hi Sherri > > I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my experience is > that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the red cells are back > into the normal range. I continue to recommend use of the Doxycyline to > interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol does not attack the virus, > though I believe it makes the cat stronger overall and able to fight back. > But at the outset of the treatment regime, I believe you must have the > Doxycycline on board to try and reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it > from rising. > > Amani > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > Hi Liz > > The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is Winstrol > (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most steroids we are > used to getting, like prednisone, which is a corticosteroid. > > Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc. > > Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on right > now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to slow down or > inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by interfering the RNA > duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping inflammation at bay, but > neither of these helps to increase the red cells. The Winstrol acts directly > and very quickly on the bone marrow and seems to get red cells generated > again, quite promptly. At least it did for my Zander, and I have been > contacted directly by several people from this group, who have reported to me > that they also saw almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats’ > gums/ears/pads pinkening up. > > The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is also what > professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and faster. Quite > unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the Olympics) that > association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on its use in both animal > and people medicine. In human medicine, it is the only drug found to be > effective in treating hereditary angioedema and anemia. > > Here is a blurb I found about it: > > Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based Winthrop > Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later, in 1961, > Winthrop’s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that started > manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets. > > In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons. But > later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only promoting growth > and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a termination of the > manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American market. But Winstrol was > among those steroids which not only survived, but thrived in the 1980s and > 1990s. During this period, its use was reinforced as a cure for anemia – as > it had the power to boost red blood cell count, and was used as a treatment > for facial swelling or angioedema. > > When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation > Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003. However, > Ovation Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so the Winstrol > products available today in the American markets are only generic and not > pharmaceutical grade. Outside the USA, however, several large brands still > manufacture and sell Winstrol. > > Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because it > separates from the liquid into micrometer particles. These particles will > fall to the bottom if the container is not disturbed for a few hours. The > crystals have a milky white color. > > Winstrol can not only be used for humans, but it has veterinary uses as well. > Weakened or injured animals can be treated with Winstrol in order to promote > red blood cell count, strengthen bones, stimulate appetite, and enhance > muscle growth. It has also reportedly been used to dope horses in US horse > races. > > If your vet is willing to try this, he/she will need to order it from a > compounding pharmacy. > > The dose should be 1 mg 2 times a day for a cat. If your cat is in poor shape > and needs an immediate boost, start him on 2 mg x 2 times a day for a week or > so, and then drop down to the lower dose. > > Your vet will undoubtedly say that Winstrol is known to cause liver damage. > > The first answer to this is, so what? FeLV will almost invariably result in > the premature death of cats. The vets have nothing which is directly > effective to fight FeLV. Things like Interferon may or may not assist but > such a treatment is again a side treatment where you are hoping to boost your > cat’s immune system, rather than a direct attack on the virus. It is also > quite indirect in that IF the interferon helps, it will be more long term, > and only if it manages to boost the immune system enough to permit your cat’s > system to try and fight the virus, and when/if the virus is inhibited enough, > then MAYBE (if the virus hasn’t already destroyed all the progenitor cells in > the bone marrow) will red cell production begin to climb again. Winstrol is > the only medication that I know of, (and believe me, I have looked!) that > seems to work by turning back on those progenitor cells or possibly promoting > the growth of new ones since it also works to enhance the production of bone > cells (effective against osteoporosis). > > The second answer, regarding the liver damage, is that the only information > about this is quite suspect, coming out of a very poorly designed research > study where the cats in the study were given doses found effective on HUSKY > SLED DOGS for lord’s sake! The cats were given a LOADING DOSE via intravenous > injection, of 25 mg – more than 10 times the recommended daily dose for cats. > That’s the only study which has found this supposed link between Winstrol and > liver damage. And even in that study, with those remarkably ridiculous doses, > the cats in that study only had elevated liver enzymes (no tumours, etc.) and > the liver enzymes dropped back to normal levels when the Winstrol was > discontinued. This is consistent with my experience as well. I refused to > stop the Winstrol for my cat, when the enzymes went up, because he was going > to die with the low red cell count he had. I kept him on Winstrol for around > 10 months, before the red cells were in a normal range. During that ten month > period, I would wean him down a few times, but ALWAYS the red cells would > immediately drop again, so it was more than clear that it was the Winstrol > making the numbers rise. So, in the end, he had Winstrol pretty much for the > duration of 10 months and his liver enzymes went right back to normal again, > once I discontinued the Winstrol – NO lasting damage. This was also my > experience with a second cat with a nasal sarcoma, and where I used the > Winstrol to keep her appetite up and reduce the swelling (she was 16). The > enzymes went quite high at the outset of my use of Winstrol, but went back to > normal when I weaned her off for a bit and then again when I ultimately took > her off the Winstrol. > > Get the Winstrol if you can, and use it in combination with the prednisone > (which I am told also helps to protect the liver when the Winstrol is used) > and Doxycycline. > > Amani > > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Liz > McCarty > Sent: September-15-16 1:40 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV > > Hi everyone, > > Looking for support, suggestions, and information. I've never had a cat with > FeLV. We took our 1 year old, Hodor, to the vet because he seemed lethargic > and in his stool there was a piece of floss that was red. At the vet things > escalated and they told us he was severely anemic and would need a > transfusion that day. I took off work and rushed him to a specialist. The vet > there told us she would run an FeLV test before doing anything in case we > wanted to avoid the extra tests and procedures. She told us he was FeLV > positive and persistently talked to me and my fiance about euthanizing him > which was out of the question for us. I took him to the vet thinking it was > going to be minor and then she's talking to me about killing him! We went > forward with the blood transfusion. It's been almost 3 weeks now. They had > him on doxycycline in case there was a bacterial cause, and prednisone. Last > week he started interferon... Does anyone have experience with that and know > if it was effective? I also started him on Pet Tinic. Any other > suggestions? Any insight into whether you think he will be able to pull > through? He doesn't have cancer, they ran the tests but don't know if it's in > the bone marrow. I'm scared. We have another one year old, unrelated, and > they are best friends. It breaks my heart to think they might be separated. > She's not FeLV positive. > > Additionally I have set up a go fund me to help with the costs we incurred, > and I want to donate half to FeLV research if anyone is interested. > http://www.gofundme.com/2mzdpgk > > Mainly looking for support and advice. Thank you in advance. > > Elizabeth McCarty, ASW #36438 > > On May 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Maribel Piloto <pilo...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic. Her name is Flaqui. She > showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of months ago (already > spayed) and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat with not much time > left so I took her home to give her some comfort in her final days. When I > took her to the vet it turned out that she isn't that old (vet things 4-5) > but she's Leuk+. I decided to keep her in my room where I have another > Leuk+ guy. I'm building a little catio for them outside one of the bedroom > windows so they can enjoy the outside. > > Flaqui's numbers in January 2018 were... > > RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW > HCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOW > HGB 6.8 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW > MCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0) > MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0) > MCHC - 33.8 g/dL (29.0-37.5) > RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0) > %RETIC - 1.3% > RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) HIGH > WBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50) > EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGH > PLT - 663 K/uL (175-600) > Everything else was normal > > I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron and B-12 > among other things. Also giving her Vetri-DMG. She initially had very bad > diarrhea but I managed to clear this with Metronidazole. She's also been > dewormed and got Revolution. Despite eating and showing an interest in > food, she has been losing weight (down to 5 lbs) so last week I had bloodwork > done again. Here are the results... > > RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW > HCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOW > HGB 8.1 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW > MCV 39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOW > MCH - 21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGH > MCHC - --- g/dL (29.0-37.5) > RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0) > %RETIC - 1.1% > RETIC - 40.7 K/uL (3.0-50.0) > WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGH > NEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) HIGH > PLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGH > Everything else was normal > > My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell count was > high which is indicative on an infection somewhere. I was really alarmed by > the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic renal failure and anemia some > years back and I know that once the HCT numbers get below 20% it can be very > dangerous. With that cat, Grayson, I used Aranesp very successfully to > treat his anemia. He eventually succumbed to the kidney failure but the > Aranesp kept his anemia at bay. > > I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to do with > Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood transfusions in my area > (South FL) are in the $1000 range and I manage 6 colonies and have other cats > at home with medical needs including one that needs a full mouth extraction > for stomatitis and I just can't spend that type of money on Flaqui. > > Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her? She does > not have kidney problems. However, based on the reticulocyte levels, she > does seem to have non-regenerative anaemia. I read this document at > Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease that explains > that the reticulocyte level needs to be adjusted based on PCV... > > In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in percentage > terms, they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of anaemia, i.e. 1% > reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as many as 1% reticulocytes > in a cat with a PCV of 10%. > > Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the measured reticulocyte count is > 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured count, then divide the result by > the normal PCV level (35% for many laboratories). In this instance, you would > get an adjusted result of 0.39%, which indicates non-regeneration. > > In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and the measured reticulocyte count > was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. This also indicates > non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the corrected value, > the lower the regenerative response). > > Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35 = .46 > which indicates non-regeneration. > > Any help would be appreciated. Flaqui has been doing better the last couple > of days. I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish I could improve > those HCT numbers. > > Maribel & Flaqui. > > "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." > -Mohandas Ghandi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
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