My recollection re: the stand against Doxy Tabs is that they are often
large and hard to get all the way down the cats throat without getting
stuck.... I DO apologize that it's been so long since I was giving my
cats Doxy in pill form successfully( had found a coated small pill)....
but... if you can afford it ...diamondback drugs can formulate tasty
chewies with Doxy that many cats love ( mine ate them down with relish)
Believe Sandy might be able to weigh in on this??.... Don't have
experience with liquid form... but be assured there iis always a way a
drug can be administered to a cat... if one has the time, ability and
funds.... The chewies are not cheap....
Bob in Warwick NY
On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 01:44 AM, [email protected]
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Anemia and Aranesp (Maribel Piloto)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 01:43:43 -0400
From: Maribel Piloto
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Amani and everyone else who?s been helping me with this post - I
shared the recommended drug protocol with a friend of mine who isn?t a
vet but has worked for years in animal rescue and has also worked at
both the local Humane Society and the local county shelter. She also
attends a lot of vet conferences. She sent me the following...
If your vet is willing to prescribe this regimen, I'd give it a try
with one CRITICAL CHANGE. NEVER use doxycycline tablets/capsules
with cats as doxy can cause esophageal strictures. You can get
compounded doxycycline is 50 mg/ml, so dose would be 0.4 - 0.5 ml
twice a day.
Do you foresee any issues with using the Doxy in liquid format? I
also wanted to get the Prednisolone in liquid as Flaqui is very
difficult to pill.
Thanks
Maribel
"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are
treated."
-Mohandas Ghandi
On May 10, 2018, at 11:02 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:
Thank you Sandy. You saved me from repeating what I have posted so
very often now.
Mirabel, regarding the Aranesp, it is a product which mimics the
effects of erythropoietin. I do not believe it will assist because
erythropoietin tells the bone marrow to produce more red cells. With
FeLV, it infects the cells in the bone marrow which produce all three
cell lines (red cells, white cells, platelets). The cells are taken
over and destroyed by the virus, which means that the bone marrow can
no longer produce red cells, white cells and/or platelets. The
erythropoietin or Aranesp is speaking to these cells and telling them
to churn out more red cells, but the bone marrow cells can no longer
do that. My experience with the Winstrol is that after my cat had the
very worst results (HAEMATOCRIT OF FIVE!!!, ZERO % RETICULOCYTES,
etc.) and AFTER I had given him several bouts of blood transfusions,
the Winstrol turned back on the bone marrow and he began producing
red cells, white cells and platelets again.
Amani
From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Sandy
Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM
To: Maribel Piloto; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp
This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but
your answer lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this
will work if your vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose -
BUT you and the vet need to act immediately. - good luck. You will
probably get more responses - Sandy W
Winstrol ? 1 mg twice a day
Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day
Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day
If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation,
slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be
indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try
adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide.
If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you
might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week,
to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to
be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol,
recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster.
Hope this helps! Amani
From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of gary
Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV
Amani,
Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know
they must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them.
Thanks, Gary
On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:
Hi Sherri
I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my
experience is that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the
red cells are back into the normal range. I continue to recommend use
of the Doxycyline to interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol
does not attack the virus, though I believe it makes the cat stronger
overall and able to fight back. But at the outset of the treatment
regime, I believe you must have the Doxycycline on board to try and
reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it from rising.
Amani
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Hi Liz
The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is
Winstrol (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most
steroids we are used to getting, like prednisone, which is a
corticosteroid.
Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc.
Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on
right now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to
slow down or inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by
interfering the RNA duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping
inflammation at bay, but neither of these helps to increase the red
cells. The Winstrol acts directly and very quickly on the bone marrow
and seems to get red cells generated again, quite promptly. At least
it did for my Zander, and I have been contacted directly by several
people from this group, who have reported to me that they also saw
almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats?
gums/ears/pads pinkening up.
The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is
also what professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and
faster. Quite unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the
Olympics) that association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on
its use in both animal and people medicine. In human medicine, it is
the only drug found to be effective in treating hereditary angioedema
and anemia.
Here is a blurb I found about it:
Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based
Winthrop Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later,
in 1961, Winthrop?s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that
started manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets.
In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons.
But later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only
promoting growth and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a
termination of the manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American
market. But Winstrol was among those steroids which not only
survived, but thrived in the 1980s and 1990s. During this period, its
use was reinforced as a cure for anemia ? as it had the power to
boost red blood cell count, and was used as a treatment for facial
swelling or angioedema.
When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation
Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003.
However, Ovation Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so
the Winstrol products available today in the American markets are
only generic and not pharmaceutical grade. Outside the USA, however,
several large brands still manufacture and sell Winstrol.
Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because
it separates from the liquid into micrometer particles. These
particles will fall to the bottom if the container is not disturbed
for a few hours. The crystals have a milky white color.
Winstrol can not only be used for humans, but it has veterinary uses
as well. Weakened or injured animals can be treated with Winstrol in
order to promote red blood cell count, strengthen bones, stimulate
appetite, and enhance muscle growth. It has also reportedly been used
to dope horses in US horse races.
If your vet is willing to try this, he/she will need to order it from
a compounding pharmacy.
The dose should be 1 mg 2 times a day for a cat. If your cat is in
poor shape and needs an immediate boost, start him on 2 mg x 2 times
a day for a week or so, and then drop down to the lower dose.
Your vet will undoubtedly say that Winstrol is known to cause liver
damage.
The first answer to this is, so what? FeLV will almost invariably
result in the premature death of cats. The vets have nothing which is
directly effective to fight FeLV. Things like Interferon may or may
not assist but such a treatment is again a side treatment where you
are hoping to boost your cat?s immune system, rather than a direct
attack on the virus. It is also quite indirect in that IF the
interferon helps, it will be more long term, and only if it manages
to boost the immune system enough to permit your cat?s system to try
and fight the virus, and when/if the virus is inhibited enough, then
MAYBE (if the virus hasn?t already destroyed all the progenitor cells
in the bone marrow) will red cell production begin to climb again.
Winstrol is the only medication that I know of, (and believe me, I
have looked!) that seems to work by turning back on those progenitor
cells or possibly promoting the growth of new ones since it also
works to enhance the production of bone cells (effe
ctive against osteoporosis).
The second answer, regarding the liver damage, is that the only
information about this is quite suspect, coming out of a very poorly
designed research study where the cats in the study were given doses
found effective on HUSKY SLED DOGS for lord?s sake! The cats were
given a LOADING DOSE via intravenous injection, of 25 mg ? more than
10 times the recommended daily dose for cats. That?s the only study
which has found this supposed link between Winstrol and liver damage.
And even in that study, with those remarkably ridiculous doses, the
cats in that study only had elevated liver enzymes (no tumours, etc.)
and the liver enzymes dropped back to normal levels when the Winstrol
was discontinued. This is consistent with my experience as well. I
refused to stop the Winstrol for my cat, when the enzymes went up,
because he was going to die with the low red cell count he had. I
kept him on Winstrol for around 10 months, before the red cells were
in a normal range. During that ten month per
iod, I would wean him down a few times, but ALWAYS the red cells
would immediately drop again, so it was more than clear that it was
the Winstrol making the numbers rise. So, in the end, he had Winstrol
pretty much for the duration of 10 months and his liver enzymes went
right back to normal again, once I discontinued the Winstrol ? NO
lasting damage. This was also my experience with a second cat with a
nasal sarcoma, and where I used the Winstrol to keep her appetite up
and reduce the swelling (she was 16). The enzymes went quite high at
the outset of my use of Winstrol, but went back to normal when I
weaned her off for a bit and then again when I ultimately took her off
the Winstrol.
Get the Winstrol if you can, and use it in combination with the
prednisone (which I am told also helps to protect the liver when the
Winstrol is used) and Doxycycline.
Amani
From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Liz McCarty
Sent: September-15-16 1:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV
Hi everyone,
Looking for support, suggestions, and information. I've never had a
cat with FeLV. We took our 1 year old, Hodor, to the vet because he
seemed lethargic and in his stool there was a piece of floss that was
red. At the vet things escalated and they told us he was severely
anemic and would need a transfusion that day. I took off work and
rushed him to a specialist. The vet there told us she would run an
FeLV test before doing anything in case we wanted to avoid the extra
tests and procedures. She told us he was FeLV positive and
persistently talked to me and my fiance about euthanizing him which
was out of the question for us. I took him to the vet thinking it was
going to be minor and then she's talking to me about killing him! We
went forward with the blood transfusion. It's been almost 3 weeks
now. They had him on doxycycline in case there was a bacterial
cause, and prednisone. Last week he started interferon... Does anyone
have experience with that and know if it was effective?
I also started him on Pet Tinic. Any other suggestions? Any insight
into whether you think he will be able to pull through? He doesn't
have cancer, they ran the tests but don't know if it's in the bone
marrow. I'm scared. We have another one year old, unrelated, and they
are best friends. It breaks my heart to think they might be separated.
She's not FeLV positive.
Additionally I have set up a go fund me to help with the costs we
incurred, and I want to donate half to FeLV research if anyone is
interested. http://www.gofundme.com/2mzdpgk
Mainly looking for support and advice. Thank you in advance.
Elizabeth McCarty, ASW #36438
On May 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Maribel Piloto
wrote:
Hi all,
I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic. Her name is Flaqui.
She showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of months ago
(already spayed) and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat
with not much time left so I took her home to give her some comfort
in her final days. When I took her to the vet it turned out that she
isn't that old (vet things 4-5) but she's Leuk+. I decided to keep
her in my room where I have another Leuk+ guy. I'm building a little
catio for them outside one of the bedroom windows so they can enjoy
the outside.
Flaqui's numbers in January 2018 were...
RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW
HCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOW
HGB 6.8 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW
MCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0)
MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0)
MCHC - 33.8 g/dL (29.0-37.5)
RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0)
%RETIC - 1.3%
RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) HIGH
WBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50)
EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGH
PLT - 663 K/uL (175-600)
Everything else was normal
I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron
and B-12 among other things. Also giving her Vetri-DMG. She
initially had very bad diarrhea but I managed to clear this with
Metronidazole. She's also been dewormed and got Revolution.
Despite eating and showing an interest in food, she has been losing
weight (down to 5 lbs) so last week I had bloodwork done again. Here
are the results...
RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW
HCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOW
HGB 8.1 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW
MCV 39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOW
MCH - 21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGH
MCHC - --- g/dL (29.0-37.5)
RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0)
%RETIC - 1.1%
RETIC - 40.7 K/uL (3.0-50.0)
WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGH
NEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) HIGH
PLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGH
Everything else was normal
My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell
count was high which is indicative on an infection somewhere. I was
really alarmed by the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic
renal failure and anemia some years back and I know that once the HCT
numbers get below 20% it can be very dangerous. With that cat,
Grayson, I used Aranesp very successfully to treat his anemia. He
eventually succumbed to the kidney failure but the Aranesp kept his
anemia at bay.
I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to
do with Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood
transfusions in my area (South FL) are in the $1000 range and I
manage 6 colonies and have other cats at home with medical needs
including one that needs a full mouth extraction for stomatitis and I
just can't spend that type of money on Flaqui.
Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her?
She does not have kidney problems. However, based on the
reticulocyte levels, she does seem to have non-regenerative anaemia.
I read this document at Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic
Kidney Disease that explains that the reticulocyte level needs to be
adjusted based on PCV...
In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in
percentage terms, they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of
anaemia, i.e. 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as
many as 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 10%.
Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the measured reticulocyte
count is 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured count, then
divide the result by the normal PCV level (35% for many
laboratories). In this instance, you would get an adjusted result of
0.39%, which indicates non-regeneration.
In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and the measured reticulocyte
count was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. This also
indicates non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the
corrected value, the lower the regenerative response).
Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35
= .46 which indicates non-regeneration.
Any help would be appreciated. Flaqui has been doing better the
last couple of days. I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish
I could improve those HCT numbers.
Maribel & Flaqui.
"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are
treated."
-Mohandas Ghandi
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