Thanks Bob and everyone else. Flaqui
"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Mohandas Ghandi > On May 13, 2018, at 2:21 PM, ROBERT CHAPEL <[email protected]> wrote: > > My recollection re: the stand against Doxy Tabs is that they are often large > and hard to get all the way down the cats throat without getting stuck.... > I DO apologize that it's been so long since I was giving my cats Doxy in pill > form successfully( had found a coated small pill).... but... if you can > afford it ...diamondback drugs can formulate tasty chewies with Doxy that > many cats love ( mine ate them down with relish) Believe Sandy might be able > to weigh in on this??.... Don't have experience with liquid form... but be > assured there iis always a way a drug can be administered to a cat... if one > has the time, ability and funds.... The chewies are not cheap.... > > Bob in Warwick NY > > > On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 01:44 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Anemia and Aranesp (Maribel Piloto) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 01:43:43 -0400 >> From: Maribel Piloto > >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi Amani and everyone else who?s been helping me with this post - I shared >> the recommended drug protocol with a friend of mine who isn?t a vet but has >> worked for years in animal rescue and has also worked at both the local >> Humane Society and the local county shelter. She also attends a lot of vet >> conferences. She sent me the following... >> >>> If your vet is willing to prescribe this regimen, I'd give it a try with >>> one CRITICAL CHANGE. NEVER use doxycycline tablets/capsules with cats as >>> doxy can cause esophageal strictures. You can get compounded doxycycline >>> is 50 mg/ml, so dose would be 0.4 - 0.5 ml twice a day. >> >> Do you foresee any issues with using the Doxy in liquid format? I also >> wanted to get the Prednisolone in liquid as Flaqui is very difficult to pill. >> >> Thanks >> Maribel >> "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." >> -Mohandas Ghandi >> >>> On May 10, 2018, at 11:02 PM, Amani Oakley wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Sandy. You saved me from repeating what I have posted so very >>> often now. >>> Mirabel, regarding the Aranesp, it is a product which mimics the effects of >>> erythropoietin. I do not believe it will assist because erythropoietin >>> tells the bone marrow to produce more red cells. With FeLV, it infects the >>> cells in the bone marrow which produce all three cell lines (red cells, >>> white cells, platelets). The cells are taken over and destroyed by the >>> virus, which means that the bone marrow can no longer produce red cells, >>> white cells and/or platelets. The erythropoietin or Aranesp is speaking to >>> these cells and telling them to churn out more red cells, but the bone >>> marrow cells can no longer do that. My experience with the Winstrol is that >>> after my cat had the very worst results (HAEMATOCRIT OF FIVE!!!, ZERO % >>> RETICULOCYTES, etc.) and AFTER I had given him several bouts of blood >>> transfusions, the Winstrol turned back on the bone marrow and he began >>> producing red cells, white cells and platelets again. >>> Amani >>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> Sandy >>> Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM >>> To: Maribel Piloto; [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp >>> This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but your >>> answer lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this will work >>> if your vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose - BUT you and the >>> vet need to act immediately. - good luck. You will probably get more >>> responses - Sandy W >>> >>> >>> Winstrol ? 1 mg twice a day >>> >>> Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day >>> >>> Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day >>> >>> If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow >>> moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative >>> of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet >>> of apometocloprimide. >>> >>> If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might >>> consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and >>> kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely >>> increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this >>> might also increase the liver enzymes faster. >>> >>> Hope this helps! Amani >>> >>> >>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> gary >>> Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV >>> >>> Amani, >>> >>> Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know they >>> must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them. >>> >>> Thanks, Gary >>> >>> On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sherri >>> >>> I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my experience is >>> that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the red cells are back >>> into the normal range. I continue to recommend use of the Doxycyline to >>> interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol does not attack the virus, >>> though I believe it makes the cat stronger overall and able to fight back. >>> But at the outset of the treatment regime, I believe you must have the >>> Doxycycline on board to try and reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it >>> from rising. >>> >>> Amani >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Felvtalk mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>> >>> Hi Liz >>> >>> The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is Winstrol >>> (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most steroids we are >>> used to getting, like prednisone, which is a corticosteroid. >>> >>> Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc. >>> >>> Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on right >>> now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to slow down or >>> inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by interfering the RNA >>> duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping inflammation at bay, but >>> neither of these helps to increase the red cells. The Winstrol acts >>> directly and very quickly on the bone marrow and seems to get red cells >>> generated again, quite promptly. At least it did for my Zander, and I have >>> been contacted directly by several people from this group, who have >>> reported to me that they also saw almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence >>> of their cats? gums/ears/pads pinkening up. >>> >>> The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is also >>> what professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and faster. Quite >>> unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the Olympics) that >>> association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on its use in both >>> animal and people medicine. In human medicine, it is the only drug found to >>> be effective in treating hereditary angioedema and anemia. >>> >>> Here is a blurb I found about it: >>> >>> Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based Winthrop >>> Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later, in 1961, >>> Winthrop?s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that started >>> manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets. >>> >>> In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons. But >>> later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only promoting >>> growth and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a termination of >>> the manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American market. But Winstrol >>> was among those steroids which not only survived, but thrived in the 1980s >>> and 1990s. During this period, its use was reinforced as a cure for anemia >>> ? as it had the power to boost red blood cell count, and was used as a >>> treatment for facial swelling or angioedema. >>> >>> When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation >>> Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003. However, >>> Ovation Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so the Winstrol >>> products available today in the American markets are only generic and not >>> pharmaceutical grade. Outside the USA, however, several large brands still >>> manufacture and sell Winstrol. >>> >>> Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because it >>> separates from the liquid into micrometer particles. These particles will >>> fall to the bottom if the container is not disturbed for a few hours. The >>> crystals have a milky white color. >>> >>> Winstrol can not only be used for humans, but it has veterinary uses as >>> well. Weakened or injured animals can be treated with Winstrol in order to >>> promote red blood cell count, strengthen bones, stimulate appetite, and >>> enhance muscle growth. It has also reportedly been used to dope horses in >>> US horse races. >>> >>> If your vet is willing to try this, he/she will need to order it from a >>> compounding pharmacy. >>> >>> The dose should be 1 mg 2 times a day for a cat. If your cat is in poor >>> shape and needs an immediate boost, start him on 2 mg x 2 times a day for a >>> week or so, and then drop down to the lower dose. >>> >>> Your vet will undoubtedly say that Winstrol is known to cause liver damage. >>> >>> The first answer to this is, so what? FeLV will almost invariably result in >>> the premature death of cats. The vets have nothing which is directly >>> effective to fight FeLV. Things like Interferon may or may not assist but >>> such a treatment is again a side treatment where you are hoping to boost >>> your cat?s immune system, rather than a direct attack on the virus. It is >>> also quite indirect in that IF the interferon helps, it will be more long >>> term, and only if it manages to boost the immune system enough to permit >>> your cat?s system to try and fight the virus, and when/if the virus is >>> inhibited enough, then MAYBE (if the virus hasn?t already destroyed all the >>> progenitor cells in the bone marrow) will red cell production begin to >>> climb again. Winstrol is the only medication that I know of, (and believe >>> me, I have looked!) that seems to work by turning back on those progenitor >>> cells or possibly promoting the growth of new ones since it also works to >>> enhance the production of bone cells (ef fe >> ctive against osteoporosis). >>> >>> The second answer, regarding the liver damage, is that the only information >>> about this is quite suspect, coming out of a very poorly designed research >>> study where the cats in the study were given doses found effective on HUSKY >>> SLED DOGS for lord?s sake! The cats were given a LOADING DOSE via >>> intravenous injection, of 25 mg ? more than 10 times the recommended daily >>> dose for cats. That?s the only study which has found this supposed link >>> between Winstrol and liver damage. And even in that study, with those >>> remarkably ridiculous doses, the cats in that study only had elevated liver >>> enzymes (no tumours, etc.) and the liver enzymes dropped back to normal >>> levels when the Winstrol was discontinued. This is consistent with my >>> experience as well. I refused to stop the Winstrol for my cat, when the >>> enzymes went up, because he was going to die with the low red cell count he >>> had. I kept him on Winstrol for around 10 months, before the red cells were >>> in a normal range. During that ten month p er >> iod, I would wean him down a few times, but ALWAYS the red cells would >> immediately drop again, so it was more than clear that it was the Winstrol >> making the numbers rise. So, in the end, he had Winstrol pretty much for the >> duration of 10 months and his liver enzymes went right back to normal again, >> once I discontinued the Winstrol ? NO lasting damage. This was also my >> experience with a second cat with a nasal sarcoma, and where I used the >> Winstrol to keep her appetite up and reduce the swelling (she was 16). The >> enzymes went quite high at the outset of my use of Winstrol, but went back >> to normal when I weaned her off for a bit and then again when I ultimately >> took her off the Winstrol. >>> >>> Get the Winstrol if you can, and use it in combination with the prednisone >>> (which I am told also helps to protect the liver when the Winstrol is used) >>> and Doxycycline. >>> >>> Amani >>> >>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> Liz McCarty >>> Sent: September-15-16 1:40 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Looking for support, suggestions, and information. I've never had a cat >>> with FeLV. We took our 1 year old, Hodor, to the vet because he seemed >>> lethargic and in his stool there was a piece of floss that was red. At the >>> vet things escalated and they told us he was severely anemic and would need >>> a transfusion that day. I took off work and rushed him to a specialist. The >>> vet there told us she would run an FeLV test before doing anything in case >>> we wanted to avoid the extra tests and procedures. She told us he was FeLV >>> positive and persistently talked to me and my fiance about euthanizing him >>> which was out of the question for us. I took him to the vet thinking it was >>> going to be minor and then she's talking to me about killing him! We went >>> forward with the blood transfusion. It's been almost 3 weeks now. They had >>> him on doxycycline in case there was a bacterial cause, and prednisone. >>> Last week he started interferon... Does anyone have experience with that >>> and know if it was effective ? >> I also started him on Pet Tinic. Any other suggestions? Any insight into >> whether you think he will be able to pull through? He doesn't have cancer, >> they ran the tests but don't know if it's in the bone marrow. I'm scared. >> We have another one year old, unrelated, and they are best friends. It >> breaks my heart to think they might be separated. She's not FeLV positive. >>> >>> Additionally I have set up a go fund me to help with the costs we incurred, >>> and I want to donate half to FeLV research if anyone is interested. >>> http://www.gofundme.com/2mzdpgk >>> >>> Mainly looking for support and advice. Thank you in advance. >>> >>> Elizabeth McCarty, ASW #36438 >>> >>> On May 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Maribel Piloto > wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic. Her name is Flaqui. She >>> showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of months ago (already >>> spayed) and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat with not much time >>> left so I took her home to give her some comfort in her final days. When I >>> took her to the vet it turned out that she isn't that old (vet things 4-5) >>> but she's Leuk+. I decided to keep her in my room where I have another >>> Leuk+ guy. I'm building a little catio for them outside one of the bedroom >>> windows so they can enjoy the outside. >>> Flaqui's numbers in January 2018 were... >>> RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW >>> HCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOW >>> HGB 6.8 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW >>> MCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0) >>> MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0) >>> MCHC - 33.8 g/dL (29.0-37.5) >>> RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0) >>> %RETIC - 1.3% >>> RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) HIGH >>> WBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50) >>> EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGH >>> PLT - 663 K/uL (175-600) >>> Everything else was normal >>> I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron and B-12 >>> among other things. Also giving her Vetri-DMG. She initially had very >>> bad diarrhea but I managed to clear this with Metronidazole. She's also >>> been dewormed and got Revolution. Despite eating and showing an interest in >>> food, she has been losing weight (down to 5 lbs) so last week I had >>> bloodwork done again. Here are the results... >>> RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW >>> HCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOW >>> HGB 8.1 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW >>> MCV 39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOW >>> MCH - 21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGH >>> MCHC - --- g/dL (29.0-37.5) >>> RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0) >>> %RETIC - 1.1% >>> RETIC - 40.7 K/uL (3.0-50.0) >>> WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGH >>> NEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) HIGH >>> PLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGH >>> Everything else was normal >>> My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell count >>> was high which is indicative on an infection somewhere. I was really >>> alarmed by the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic renal failure >>> and anemia some years back and I know that once the HCT numbers get below >>> 20% it can be very dangerous. With that cat, Grayson, I used Aranesp very >>> successfully to treat his anemia. He eventually succumbed to the kidney >>> failure but the Aranesp kept his anemia at bay. >>> I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to do with >>> Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood transfusions in my area >>> (South FL) are in the $1000 range and I manage 6 colonies and have other >>> cats at home with medical needs including one that needs a full mouth >>> extraction for stomatitis and I just can't spend that type of money on >>> Flaqui. >>> Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her? She >>> does not have kidney problems. However, based on the reticulocyte levels, >>> she does seem to have non-regenerative anaemia. I read this document at >>> Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease that explains >>> that the reticulocyte level needs to be adjusted based on PCV... >>> In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in percentage >>> terms, they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of anaemia, i.e. 1% >>> reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as many as 1% >>> reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 10%. >>> Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the measured reticulocyte count is >>> 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured count, then divide the result >>> by the normal PCV level (35% for many laboratories). In this instance, you >>> would get an adjusted result of 0.39%, which indicates non-regeneration. >>> In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and the measured reticulocyte count >>> was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. This also indicates >>> non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the corrected >>> value, the lower the regenerative response). >>> Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35 = .46 >>> which indicates non-regeneration. >>> Any help would be appreciated. Flaqui has been doing better the last >>> couple of days. I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish I could >>> improve those HCT numbers. >>> Maribel & Flaqui. >>> "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are >>> treated." >>> -Mohandas Ghandi >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Felvtalk mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Felvtalk mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Felvtalk mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 46, Issue 7 >> *************************************** >> > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > [email protected] > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list [email protected] http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

