Thanks Bob and everyone else.

Flaqui

"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
-Mohandas Ghandi

> On May 13, 2018, at 2:21 PM, ROBERT CHAPEL <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> My recollection re: the stand against Doxy Tabs is that they are often large 
> and hard to get all the way down the cats throat without getting stuck....   
> I DO apologize that it's been so long since I was giving my cats Doxy in pill 
> form successfully( had found a coated small pill).... but... if you can 
> afford it ...diamondback drugs can formulate tasty chewies with Doxy that 
> many cats love ( mine ate them down with relish)  Believe Sandy might be able 
> to weigh in on this??.... Don't have experience with liquid form... but be 
> assured there iis always a way a drug can be administered to a cat... if one 
> has the time, ability and funds....   The chewies are not cheap....
> 
> Bob in Warwick NY
>  
>  
>  On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 01:44 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>  
>  > Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
>>    [email protected]
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>     http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>> 
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>    [email protected]
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>    [email protected]
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Re: Anemia and Aranesp (Maribel Piloto)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 01:43:43 -0400
>> From: Maribel Piloto
> 
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp
>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Hi Amani and everyone else who?s been helping me with this post - I shared 
>> the recommended drug protocol with a friend of mine who isn?t a vet but has 
>> worked for years in animal rescue and has also worked at both the local 
>> Humane Society and the local county shelter.  She also attends a lot of vet 
>> conferences.  She sent me the following...
>> 
>>> If your vet is willing to prescribe this regimen, I'd give it a try with 
>>> one CRITICAL CHANGE.  NEVER use doxycycline tablets/capsules with cats as 
>>> doxy can cause esophageal strictures.  You can get compounded doxycycline 
>>> is 50 mg/ml, so dose would be 0.4 - 0.5 ml twice a day.
>> 
>> Do you foresee any issues with using the Doxy in liquid format?   I also 
>> wanted to get the Prednisolone in liquid as Flaqui is very difficult to pill.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Maribel
>> "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
>> -Mohandas Ghandi
>> 
>>> On May 10, 2018, at 11:02 PM, Amani Oakley  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you Sandy. You saved me from repeating what I have posted so very 
>>> often now.
>>> Mirabel, regarding the Aranesp, it is a product which mimics the effects of 
>>> erythropoietin. I do not believe it will assist because erythropoietin 
>>> tells the bone marrow to produce more red cells. With FeLV, it infects the 
>>> cells in the bone marrow which produce all three cell lines (red cells, 
>>> white cells, platelets). The cells are taken over and destroyed by the 
>>> virus, which means that the bone marrow can no longer produce red cells, 
>>> white cells and/or platelets. The erythropoietin or Aranesp is speaking to 
>>> these cells and telling them to churn out more red cells, but the bone 
>>> marrow cells can no longer do that. My experience with the Winstrol is that 
>>> after my cat had the very worst results (HAEMATOCRIT OF FIVE!!!, ZERO % 
>>> RETICULOCYTES, etc.) and AFTER I had given him several bouts of blood 
>>> transfusions, the Winstrol turned back on the bone marrow and he began 
>>> producing red cells, white cells and platelets again.
>>> Amani
>>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
>>> Sandy
>>> Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM
>>> To: Maribel Piloto; [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp
>>> This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but your 
>>> answer lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this will work 
>>> if your vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose - BUT you and the 
>>> vet need to act immediately. - good luck. You will probably get more 
>>> responses - Sandy W
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Winstrol ? 1 mg twice a day
>>> 
>>> Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day
>>> 
>>> Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day
>>> 
>>> If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow 
>>> moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative 
>>> of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet 
>>> of apometocloprimide.
>>> 
>>> If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might 
>>> consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and 
>>> kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely 
>>> increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this 
>>> might also increase the liver enzymes faster.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps! Amani
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
>>> gary
>>> Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV
>>> 
>>> Amani,
>>> 
>>> Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know they 
>>> must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,   Gary
>>> 
>>> On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Sherri
>>> 
>>> I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my experience is 
>>> that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the red cells are back 
>>> into the normal range. I continue to recommend use of the Doxycyline to 
>>> interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol does not attack the virus, 
>>> though I believe it makes the cat stronger overall and able to fight back. 
>>> But at the outset of the treatment regime, I believe you must have the 
>>> Doxycycline on board to try and reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it 
>>> from rising.
>>> 
>>> Amani
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Felvtalk mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>>> 
>>> Hi Liz
>>> 
>>> The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is Winstrol 
>>> (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most steroids we are 
>>> used to getting, like prednisone, which is a corticosteroid.
>>> 
>>> Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc.
>>> 
>>> Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on right 
>>> now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to slow down or 
>>> inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by interfering the RNA 
>>> duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping inflammation at bay, but 
>>> neither of these helps to increase the red cells. The Winstrol acts 
>>> directly and very quickly on the bone marrow and seems to get red cells 
>>> generated again, quite promptly. At least it did for my Zander, and I have 
>>> been contacted directly by several people from this group, who have 
>>> reported to me that they also saw almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence 
>>> of their cats? gums/ears/pads pinkening up.
>>> 
>>> The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is also 
>>> what professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and faster. Quite 
>>> unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the Olympics) that 
>>> association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on its use in both 
>>> animal and people medicine. In human medicine, it is the only drug found to 
>>> be effective in treating hereditary angioedema and anemia.
>>> 
>>> Here is a blurb I found about it:
>>> 
>>> Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based Winthrop 
>>> Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later, in 1961, 
>>> Winthrop?s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that started 
>>> manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets.
>>> 
>>> In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons. But 
>>> later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only promoting 
>>> growth and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a termination of 
>>> the manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American market. But Winstrol 
>>> was among those steroids which not only survived, but thrived in the 1980s 
>>> and 1990s. During this period, its use was reinforced as a cure for anemia 
>>> ? as it had the power to boost red blood cell count, and was used as a 
>>> treatment for facial swelling or angioedema.
>>> 
>>> When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation 
>>> Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003. However, 
>>> Ovation Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so the Winstrol 
>>> products available today in the American markets are only generic and not 
>>> pharmaceutical grade. Outside the USA, however, several large brands still 
>>> manufacture and sell Winstrol.
>>> 
>>> Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because it 
>>> separates from the liquid into micrometer particles. These particles will 
>>> fall to the bottom if the container is not disturbed for a few hours. The 
>>> crystals have a milky white color.
>>> 
>>> Winstrol can not only be used for humans, but it has veterinary uses as 
>>> well. Weakened or injured animals can be treated with Winstrol in order to 
>>> promote red blood cell count, strengthen bones, stimulate appetite, and 
>>> enhance muscle growth. It has also reportedly been used to dope horses in 
>>> US horse races.
>>> 
>>> If your vet is willing to try this, he/she will need to order it from a 
>>> compounding pharmacy.
>>> 
>>> The dose should be 1 mg 2 times a day for a cat. If your cat is in poor 
>>> shape and needs an immediate boost, start him on 2 mg x 2 times a day for a 
>>> week or so, and then drop down to the lower dose.
>>> 
>>> Your vet will undoubtedly say that Winstrol is known to cause liver damage.
>>> 
>>> The first answer to this is, so what? FeLV will almost invariably result in 
>>> the premature death of cats. The vets have nothing which is directly 
>>> effective to fight FeLV. Things like Interferon may or may not assist but 
>>> such a treatment is again a side treatment where you are hoping to boost 
>>> your cat?s immune system, rather than a direct attack on the virus. It is 
>>> also quite indirect in that IF the interferon helps, it will be more long 
>>> term, and only if it manages to boost the immune system enough to permit 
>>> your cat?s system to try and fight the virus, and when/if the virus is 
>>> inhibited enough, then MAYBE (if the virus hasn?t already destroyed all the 
>>> progenitor cells in the bone marrow) will red cell production begin to 
>>> climb again. Winstrol is the only medication that I know of, (and believe 
>>> me, I have looked!) that seems to work by turning back on those progenitor 
>>> cells or possibly promoting the growth of new ones since it also works to 
>>> enhance the production of bone cells (ef
 fe
>> ctive against osteoporosis).
>>> 
>>> The second answer, regarding the liver damage, is that the only information 
>>> about this is quite suspect, coming out of a very poorly designed research 
>>> study where the cats in the study were given doses found effective on HUSKY 
>>> SLED DOGS for lord?s sake! The cats were given a LOADING DOSE via 
>>> intravenous injection, of 25 mg ? more than 10 times the recommended daily 
>>> dose for cats. That?s the only study which has found this supposed link 
>>> between Winstrol and liver damage. And even in that study, with those 
>>> remarkably ridiculous doses, the cats in that study only had elevated liver 
>>> enzymes (no tumours, etc.) and the liver enzymes dropped back to normal 
>>> levels when the Winstrol was discontinued. This is consistent with my 
>>> experience as well. I refused to stop the Winstrol for my cat, when the 
>>> enzymes went up, because he was going to die with the low red cell count he 
>>> had. I kept him on Winstrol for around 10 months, before the red cells were 
>>> in a normal range. During that ten month p
 er
>> iod, I would wean him down a few times, but ALWAYS the red cells would 
>> immediately drop again, so it was more than clear that it was the Winstrol 
>> making the numbers rise. So, in the end, he had Winstrol pretty much for the 
>> duration of 10 months and his liver enzymes went right back to normal again, 
>> once I discontinued the Winstrol ? NO lasting damage. This was also my 
>> experience with a second cat with a nasal sarcoma, and where I used the 
>> Winstrol to keep her appetite up and reduce the swelling (she was 16). The 
>> enzymes went quite high at the outset of my use of Winstrol, but went back 
>> to normal when I weaned her off for a bit and then again when I ultimately 
>> took her off the Winstrol.
>>> 
>>> Get the Winstrol if you can, and use it in combination with the prednisone 
>>> (which I am told also helps to protect the liver when the Winstrol is used) 
>>> and Doxycycline.
>>> 
>>> Amani
>>> 
>>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
>>> Liz McCarty
>>> Sent: September-15-16 1:40 PM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> Looking for support, suggestions, and information. I've never had a cat 
>>> with FeLV. We took our 1 year old, Hodor, to the vet because he seemed 
>>> lethargic and in his stool there was a piece of floss that was red. At the 
>>> vet things escalated and they told us he was severely anemic and would need 
>>> a transfusion that day. I took off work and rushed him to a specialist. The 
>>> vet there told us she would run an FeLV test before doing anything in case 
>>> we wanted to avoid the extra tests and procedures. She told us he was FeLV 
>>> positive and persistently talked to me and my fiance about euthanizing him 
>>> which was out of the question for us. I took him to the vet thinking it was 
>>> going to be minor and then she's talking to me about killing him! We went 
>>> forward with the blood transfusion. It's been almost 3 weeks now. They had 
>>> him on doxycycline  in case there was a bacterial cause, and prednisone. 
>>> Last week he started interferon... Does anyone have experience with that 
>>> and know if it was effective
 ?
>> I also started him on Pet Tinic.   Any other suggestions? Any insight into 
>> whether you think he will be able to pull through? He doesn't have cancer, 
>> they ran the tests but don't know if it's in the bone marrow.  I'm scared. 
>> We have another one year old, unrelated, and they are best friends. It 
>> breaks my heart to think they might be separated. She's not FeLV positive.
>>> 
>>> Additionally I have set up a go fund me to help with the costs we incurred, 
>>> and I want to donate half to FeLV research if anyone is interested.  
>>> http://www.gofundme.com/2mzdpgk
>>> 
>>> Mainly looking for support and advice. Thank you in advance.
>>> 
>>> Elizabeth McCarty, ASW #36438
>>> 
>>> On May 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Maribel Piloto
> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Hi all,
>>> I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic.  Her name is Flaqui. She 
>>> showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of months ago (already 
>>> spayed) and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat with not much time 
>>> left so I took her home to give her some comfort in her final days.  When I 
>>> took her to the vet it turned out that she isn't that old (vet things 4-5) 
>>> but she's Leuk+.   I decided to keep her in my room where I have another 
>>> Leuk+ guy.  I'm building a little catio for them outside one of the bedroom 
>>> windows so they can enjoy the outside.
>>> Flaqui's numbers in January 2018 were...
>>> RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW
>>> HCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOW
>>> HGB 6.8 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW
>>> MCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0)
>>> MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0)
>>> MCHC - 33.8 g/dL (29.0-37.5)
>>> RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0)
>>> %RETIC - 1.3%
>>> RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) HIGH
>>> WBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50)
>>> EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGH
>>> PLT - 663 K/uL (175-600)
>>> Everything else was normal
>>> I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron and B-12 
>>> among other things.  Also giving her Vetri-DMG.   She initially had very 
>>> bad diarrhea but I managed to clear this with Metronidazole.  She's also 
>>> been dewormed and got Revolution. Despite eating and showing an interest in 
>>> food, she has been losing weight (down to 5 lbs) so last week I had 
>>> bloodwork done again.  Here are the results...
>>> RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW
>>> HCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOW
>>> HGB 8.1 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW
>>> MCV 39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOW
>>> MCH - 21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGH
>>> MCHC - --- g/dL (29.0-37.5)
>>> RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0)
>>> %RETIC - 1.1%
>>> RETIC - 40.7 K/uL (3.0-50.0)
>>> WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGH
>>> NEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) HIGH
>>> PLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGH
>>> Everything else was normal
>>> My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell count 
>>> was high which is indicative on an infection somewhere.  I was really 
>>> alarmed by the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic renal failure 
>>> and anemia some years back and I know that once the HCT numbers get below 
>>> 20% it can be very dangerous.   With that cat, Grayson, I used Aranesp very 
>>> successfully to treat his anemia.  He eventually succumbed to the kidney 
>>> failure but the Aranesp kept his anemia at bay.
>>> I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to do with 
>>> Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood transfusions in my area 
>>> (South FL) are in the $1000 range and I manage 6 colonies and have other 
>>> cats at home with medical needs including one that needs a full mouth 
>>> extraction for stomatitis and I just can't spend that type of money on 
>>> Flaqui.
>>> Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her? She 
>>> does not have kidney problems.  However, based on the reticulocyte levels, 
>>> she does seem to have  non-regenerative anaemia. I read this document at 
>>> Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease that explains 
>>> that the reticulocyte level needs to be adjusted based on PCV...
>>> In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in percentage 
>>> terms, they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of anaemia, i.e. 1% 
>>> reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as many as 1% 
>>> reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 10%.
>>> Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the measured reticulocyte count is 
>>> 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured count, then divide the result 
>>> by the normal PCV level (35% for many laboratories). In this instance, you 
>>> would get an adjusted result of 0.39%, which indicates non-regeneration.
>>> In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and the measured reticulocyte count 
>>> was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. This also indicates 
>>> non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the corrected 
>>> value, the lower the regenerative response).
>>> Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35 = .46 
>>> which indicates non-regeneration.
>>> Any help would be appreciated.  Flaqui has been doing better the last 
>>> couple of days.  I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish I could 
>>> improve those HCT numbers.
>>> Maribel & Flaqui.
>>> "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are 
>>> treated."
>>> -Mohandas Ghandi
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Felvtalk mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Felvtalk mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Felvtalk mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 46, Issue 7
>> ***************************************
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Felvtalk mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
[email protected]
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Reply via email to