On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 12:39:14PM -0400, Vittorio Giovara wrote: > On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 6:24 AM Michael Niedermayer <mich...@niedermayer.cc> > wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 08:15:27AM -0700, Vittorio Giovara wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 3:00 PM Michael Niedermayer < > > mich...@niedermayer.cc> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Microsoft expanded into new fields with Xbox and Azure, yes. But > > Windows > > > > is still an OS, and Office is still a (un)productivity suite. > > > > > > > > > > Accordingly, maybe you can innovate with a new project within the > > same > > > > legal entity as FFmpeg (be it SPI, FFlabs or whatever). > > > > > > > > > > But FFmpeg as a software project is not a suitable venue for radical > > new > > > > innovation. > > > > > > > > Microsofts OS does not limit what can be installed to whats in MS main > > > > repository, FFmpeg does > > > > > > > > Microsoft windows from a user POV includes internet explorer IIRC. Its > > not > > > > a seperate > > > > product from just the legal entity. It was not in the first OS from > > > > microsoft > > > > > > > > microsofts first OS MS-DOS 1.0 ? looks slightly different than the > > current > > > > latest OS. > > > > There was radical innovation, if one likes MS or hate them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You can do the same with apple, google, or others. > > > > > > > > > > Sure but you can't do the same with iPhone or Google Search. > > > > > > > > of course you can, googles search inovated. Theres a image search a > > audio > > > > search > > > > news, travel, shoping. > > > > These did not exist in the initial google search. And while i dont > > know, i > > > > suspect > > > > google search is very good at finding google products. > > > > Google didnt became that big by simply "not being evil" > > > > > > > > But lets not assume, lets try, if i search for maps i get > > > > Google Maps as first entry. > > > > > > > > or finance, 2nd entry is https://www.google.com/finance/ > > > > > > > > > > > > And the iphone uses apples operating system and their app store, with > > > > many apple apps. Check the first iphone and compare it to the latest > > > > there is huge inovation with what you can do with all the software > > > > that comes preinstalled and also what you can install later. > > > > Thats in stark contrast to > > > > "FFmpeg as a software project is not a suitable venue for radical new > > > > innovation" > > > > when did you last use siri with your iphone ? siri was added in > > > > iphone 4s IIUC. Thats a big change. > > > > > > > > I can ultimately only repeat my oppinion. FFmpeg will innovate or > > FFmpeg > > > > will stagnate and eventually be replaced by some other project that > > doesnt > > > > have an opposition to innovation. > > > > > > > > IMHO we need to find out what direction (of innovation or lack thereof) > > > > people want. This RFC thread is kind of the first step. > > > > 2nd step would be a vote. > > > > > > > > > You are kinda comparing apples and oranges, a platform like an OS or a > > > > The examples i showed cover a wide range of software (An OS, A office > > suite, > > A web browser, an AI assitent, a search engine, web apps, and more) > > and hardware like a phone, services like cloud > > > > For all of them its true that radical innovation was essential for success. > > > > our multimedia framework is not a special case relative to above > > > > > > > network or a crypto exchange or a browser based on ffmpeg.exe, and not > > > because it's impossible but > > > > These sound like really bad ideas unrealated to innovation. > > > > > > > because it's the wrong tool for the job - > > > > IMHO, this is missing the point a bit > > > > A phone originally was a tool to call and talk to someone, to be reachable > > by > > voice communication. > > Its not a tool to write letters, until it was > > Its not a tool to browse the internet until it was > > Its not an assitent you could ask something until it was > > ... > > > > A internet browser originally was a tool to display static text and images > > maybe some ftp and gopher sprinkled into it. > > its not a tool to do video chat with , until it was > > its not a tool to write mails in, until it was > > its not a tool to submit your patches to git, until it was, ohh wait, i > > have a deja vue feeling here > > > > (and you can continue this list with software, hardware and services from > > other > > successfull companies, there is radical innovation everywhere) > > > > our repository is also not just the ffmpeg tool, there are libraries and > > theres > > ffmpeg, ffprobe, ffplay > > > > FFmpeg is a whole multimedia framework and there are many things we could > > innovate > > on. > > > > Also, i agree its important to listen to what the users want. But often > > what they > > ask for and what actually would help them most, can be different. > > > > This is many words to say that you're missing the point. Let me try in > social media format >
> You👏can't👏compare👏ffmpeg👏to👏the👏many👏projects👏you👏mentioned. I dont agree but we can pick more similar projects compare to gimp decade(s) ago i looked at adobe photoshop and gimp. photoshop was intuitive and easy to use, gimp was unintuitive and a pain even though technically it was probably not lacking features that much. Today gimp is unchanged its user interface has marginally improved only, though gimp is a active and alive project. (and btw i love and use gimp) The most trivial things photohop could do 20 years ago, for gimp I still have no clue without google "how to". For some usecases gimp has also been replaced already by krita FFmpeg will be the same. If we cant fix the issues we have. * a community that doesnt want to let contributors work on what they want the way they want (a fix are plugins) * infighting, groups of people fighting each other. (a fix may be to seperate the repository and merge peoples work, in a friendly cooperative way) now compare to the linux kernel It uses mailing lists It is not a "nice" environment, people say what is to be said. linux is not affraid to innovate to abadon tradition where new things need to be tried. linux is strong as ever If you want to be like linux you need to be like linux. [...] > - secure funding for larger projects what project you want to get funding for ? A wide range of things are funded, and last i asked when STF money was available i couldnt even find enough people willing to submit a project to reach 150k € hint hint: there is 2025 and we need maintaince projects to submit to STF in 2025 thx [...] -- Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB Into a blind darkness they enter who follow after the Ignorance, they as if into a greater darkness enter who devote themselves to the Knowledge alone. -- Isha Upanishad
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