On 2017-11-26 03:42, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
2017-11-26 9:31 GMT+01:00 Jim DeLaHunt <from.ffmpeg-...@jdlh.com>:
-@subsection Documentation/Other
+@section Documentation/Other
+@subheading Subscribe to the ffmpeg-devel mailing list.
+It is important to be subscribed to the
Of course it is important but I would much, much prefer
if people send their patches without being subscribed
than not sending their patches because it is implied
that they cannot send patches if they don't want to
But if people are not interested in improving their contribution,
I would still prefer the patches to be sent.

So, how realistic is this concern about non-subscribers sending patches to ffmpeg-devel?  Does it actually happen? Can you point to, say, three patches in the last six months which were sent by non-subscribers to ffmpeg-devel and were applied to the code base?

Given how so many of the patches submitted by subscribers who know the unwritten rules are subjected to veto and revision, I would be surprised if many non-subscribers who are ignorant of the unwritten rules would produce something satisfactory.

That said, would your concern be addressed if I were to add this sentence:

   However, it is more important to the project that we receive your
   patch than that you be subscribed to the ffmpeg-devel list. If you
   have a patch, and don't want to subscribe and discuss the patch,
   then please do send it to the list.

(I am tempted to add a phrase like, "If you want to send your patch to ffmpeg-devel without discussion, as if  abandoning your baby on the steps of the orphanage, please do; one of the kind caregivers on the list may pick it up and find it a good home."  But this is probably too snarky to be appropriate.)

+@uref{https://lists.ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel, ffmpeg-devel}
+mailing list, because any patch you contribute must be sent there
I believe it is very important that trivial patches are not sent
to the development mailing list - its volume is already so big
that some patches are sadly (!) forgotten.
Tell me more about the procedure for trivial patches. I have not seen this documented, and I don't know about it. Does this apply to occasional contributors, or only to trusted experienced ffmpeg project members with commit privileges to the repository?

The proposed text does not distinguish between occasional contributors and experienced project members. Maybe it should. I believe that the main audience of `doc/developer.html` is new and occasional contributors, because the experienced members will have internalised all the undocumented norms, and won't be referring to this page.

What revised wording do you propose for the above phrase "any patch you contribute must be sent there"?

+Also, this list is where bugs and possible improvements or
I believe this is misleading or even wrong.
Oh?  I took this wording from the existing <http://ffmpeg.org/developer.html#Documentation_002fOther> regarding the ffmpeg-cvslog list: "Bugs and possible improvements or general questions regarding commits are discussed there."
What is misleading or wrong about this wording? What is your objection?

What alternate wording would you propose for this sentence, which describes why contributors should pay attention to the content of ffmpeg-devel?
+general questions regarding commits are discussed. That may be helpful
+information as you write your contribution. Finally, by being a list
+subscriber your contribution will be posted immediately to the list,
+without the moderation hold which messages from non-subscribers experience.


I think what is important about this new section is that it describes the policy and importance of the ffmpeg-devel list. It's interesting that the project had not put this into words in the current documentation. I'm trying to do that.  Carl Eugen, you are quick to object to what you don't like about proposed wording. I think it's especially important that you suggest wording that does capture what you do support. You obviously care.

Best regards,
     —Jim DeLaHunt

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