Okay, Dennis -- rack 'em up:
 
Let's address your premises in reverse order: first, your "don't crawl, fly first" theory:  
 
Well...if we don't know where we came from, how can we know where we're going?   Yes, I can imagine your eyes rolling at that one but come now!   It's hard to tell if you're being facetious, and particularly in light of the interesting ideas you promoted and then self-deflated in your online piece - are you really serious?   Are you now reverting back to your earlier position that we MUST throw out everyone and everything which has come before us; that we must have enforced ignorance of all precedent work?   So that out of that roomfulla chimps all sitting at their MacFinaleK5s -- one of them might accidentally compose the Mahler 2nd all over again and claim it as his own -- simply because he didn't know Gus beat him to it?    Isn't it somewhat better to have at least a simian knowledge of what came before in order that he might actually build upon it?  And if you follow my logic, how can those poor damned apes aurally get to know the Mahler unless someone plays it!?   That we must ignore Bach, Shakespeare, da Vinci, Wagner, Ibsen, Monet, Dostoyevsky, Proust, Mozart,  Christopher Marlowe...oh heck with just Chris; one imagines you're advocating dumping even Philip Marlowe -- and if I were then to continue my hobbling sidestep from the 'fine' arts to the 'not-so-fine' arts: does this mean that in le monde selon Dennis I would have to give up my beloved Buster Keaton and Max Linder and (horrors) even the Brothers Marx?   That instead I would ONLY have those works created within some shadowy timeline beginning in the extremely recent past and ending only -- tomorrow?    That if I wanted to see a film comedy I'd have to choose between Adam Sandler and Jim Carrey?   As your original premise stated, the quality of a work is completely, totally irrelevant; the only importance is its chronology relative to the audience's own.    Remember: your original premise -- which you haven't truly otherwise refined for us in specifics -- was updated by you to include only those works created within one's own lifetime, so at least I could throw in the later film works of Billy Wilder but couldn't keep, for example, any of the classic Preston Sturges.    What a quandary!   Evaluate the good only based upon its age relative to that of the consumer; my (currently-)seven-year-old son can therefore never hope someday to (when he's a bloody ADULT of at least 30 if I have anything to say in the matter) revel in the bawdy glory of 'Blazing Saddles,' (which may or may not be a good thing, damn it) nor may he even see nor hear anything I, Daddy produced before his birth -- and he himself would jusssst make the cut there; if he had been born a few minutes earlier he wouldn't be allowed to regard himself in a mirror, but now we're getting a tad existential.... 
 
So -- let me get this straight: if the creator of a work is still alive -- or at least was alive when you were born -- that work is worthy and more meaningful to us than -- well, in a specific case: Sibelius, whom you related to us died before you were born.   I was seven months old when Sibelius died.    So he's not verboten to me, but is completely useless to you.   Am I interpreting you correctly?    Or were you then and still now being facetious merely for the sake of speciousness?   Please let me know because if I have you right, I'm going to have to do some serious culling of my wine cellar....
 
I would never hope to close myself off to something based strictly upon age.   As I previously stated, I make no such parameter judgment -- as I also previously stated, I base my MSO programming inclusion upon factors both blithe and concrete; aesthetic and cost-responsible -- but also practical for my specific organization and its limitations.    And to play right into your waiting hands, Dennis, I'll confide a little secret: I really don't enjoy the Baroque as much as I do later periods with far more tonally and rhythmically complex language -- as well as challenging form and intellectual provocation.    But: there is a place, I feel, even for such older, 'simpler' music -- and so I program it; and you know what?   I find that in so doing, I learn and grow and enjoy and respect and sometimes, sometimes....even come to love works I've written off, simply because in studying them as a performer and not merely as a listener I begin to see worth beneath the surface....and never so much more so than when I see the works of a later composer who clearly and intentionally built upon something which came before.     
 
Once all the practical criteria have been met, my kajillions of possible choices have been whittled down to a few hundred or thousand; as my conditions of operation change through the years (i.e. if I do get a reliable bassoonist or two -- and a larger stage allowing for more players -- a bigger budget -- and increased proficiency, but I can't complain there as they have come along remarkably in the past two years...) so grows my potential programming pond.    But for now, I'm not too badly off; which takes us then into that wonderful land of subjectivity!   What I think is good and therefore worthy of playing and disseminating to our audience at large, as I previously wrote.   But oh, I've gone on too long, Dennis -- it would be extremely rude of me at this point NOT to say:
 
You first.    
 
Next point (backwards:) Are we Americans really too self-effacing?   In my personal case, perhaps so....but only because I think it polite to wear such a mask in order that I might hide my actual bloated, self-feeding, Pavarotti-sized ego.   In my case, I usually enjoy endless cruises through the lovely land of South Self-Deprecation.   Funny; I was just discussing this with an acquaintance and in my own personal experience, I've found the greater artists I've been fortunate to know personally within the many disciplines to be those who are the more self-effacing, perhaps because there is a sense of security and contentment within their own talent which conversely allows them the freedom to utilize that talent a little more fully.   Just a silly little theorem on my part based upon many years of contact with others, but who knows?   I do know that the self-aggrandizing artistes with whom I've worked are those with whom I'd not care (usually) to work again, despite any potential creative award -- and not only because their personalities may have made the experiences a bitter one, but because in not freeing their own talent, they self-crippled their own resources; there was also a subliminal need to shoot down the talent of others around them.     No names; don't ask.   To backtrack to that previous life of mine: some of the most brilliant acting talents I was fortunate to work with were also the most down-to-earth and just plain great company and here I'm delighted to divulge: Albert Finney and Vanessa Redgrave immediately pop to mind and yes, Dennis, not Americans but kinda-sorta-Europeans....and completely self-effacing.   I'm just uncomfortable literally blowing my own horn, which is why it's difficult for me to push my brilliant compositions, such as my 'American' Symphony on New and Old Tunes which had not one but two performances last year and was an astonishing revelation, ground-breaking landmark of 21st-century art which changed for the better the lives of everyone not only who heard it in concert but merely heard ABOUT it or read the title or breathed the air which passed through the great-aunt of the cousin of the head custodian of the theatre who, while he wasn't actually at any of the performances, experienced the aura...... 
 
Moving up your post: how do I decide what to program?    Easy; if I haven't already stamp-pressed that one into nothingness:
 
I program that which I enjoy hearing.    What communicates with me, my head, my heart.    And yes, you mentioned that you set 'personal taste aside' -- well, in my personal case, it would be disingenuous and in some ways even dishonest of me to program and/or pass on music which is incompatible in some way with my own personal taste: how can I make a good, convincing argument for a piece if I don't believe in it myself?   How can I be an advocate for something I don't like?   And do I give up on something at first blush if my head says, 'no good!'    No!    I do try to give myself repeated hearings of music which I initially don't get; sometimes I do find value and change my first impression; other times, I merely confirm my initial reaction.   And I may simply feel I'm not yet ready for a particular work and will then keep it on the shelf to come back to and try again in the future.    Have I changed?    Has -- somehow -- it?  But I would like to think that I have a very broad range of flexibility within what might be called my own personal taste.   And so therefore what do I program?   Most usually -- but not always -- tonal music.    With -- more often than not -- rich use of harmonic resources, intelligent structuring, perhaps - but not always -- an emotional component -- and there's the rub, Dennis, there's why we continue to program and play and listen to and enjoy and experience the composers of today AND yesterday AND the day before AND the day before that.....because....on a personal level....they still communicate with us today.   Right outta them dead dudes to our ears.   When Beethoven gives out angst, I still feel it.   When Mozart radiates joy, I get happy.   When Shakespeare kills off someone he's made me care about, I am upset.   When Moliere makes a bon mot, I get it!    I don't care when it was created; good art is timeless and communicates just as well today as it did no matter when it was initially created.   So if Dennis Bathory-Kitsz communicates to me today, I respond!     It appears you've just been therefore validated as a great artist, Dennis....
 
 
Best,
 
Les
 
 
 
 
 
Les Marsden
Founding Music Director and Conductor,
The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra
Music and Mariposa?  Ahhhhh, Paradise!!!
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff

At 12:46 PM 1/30/05 -0800, you wrote:
>Nearly every single concert of the MSO <has> included
>world premieres of brand-new, never-before-heard-anywhere
>music.

Now yer talking! Great description of the process of using new pieces as a
natural part of programming.

>Contemporary music which I find to be worthy of airing and
>disseminating to others is of great importance to me.

This is an interesting sentence. Now admittedly I have a radio show, so the
effort in programming is relatively insignificant next to finding players
and funders. But even so, I find it incredibly difficult to decide what is
"worthy of airing and disseminating to others" because there is *so much*
fine music being created today. A lot of it I don't like, but that's taste
-- and personal taste aside, it is still incredible stuff. So apart from
the practical issues you've mentioned (abilties, rentals, royalties, etc.),
how *do* you decide? (This is not a trick question!)

>And yeah, I'm the first to admit that I'm no
>Adams (either one) but then: are you?

Europeans tell me that we American artists are too self-effacing. So I'll
take the Euro-dare and say "yes". My compositional diversity means I can't
do effective genre promotion. By last count, I've had 78 commissions and
204 premieres -- yet stayed unknown enough for you to be able to ask that
question.

>Gotta crawl first.   Throw 'em some Stockhausen at the first
>concert and there won't <be> a second concert....or an orchestra
>to play it.

Omigawd, there's a giant leap between Dvorak and Stockhausen! And this
crawling thing has always troubled me. Nobody has to crawl through old
films to get to new films, old books to get to new books, old jazz to get
to new jazz, old dance to get to new dance, old plays to get to new plays,
old paintings to get to new paintings. The only artistic field that has
proselytized the crawling theory for the past century has been classical
nonpop. But I think you know my p.o.v. as we're arguing about it over on
O-list right now. :)

Dennis


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