Owain Sutton wrote:



Ken Moore wrote:

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> David W.
Fenton writes:


On the other hand, notating it as a full measure with a rest would tend to obscure the "upbeatness" of the entire measure.



Do you have a view on Elgar's "Cockaigne" overture, the first bar of which starts with three quarter rests?



Before making any firm comment, I'd want to establish if this is Elgar's intention, or a later 'acquisition'.

In any case, where's the first downbeat of Beethoven 5? If it's impossible to determine, then what should be notated?

It's in the very first measure, the one numbered 1 when measures are numbered. It's a complete measure, and there is clearly a downbeat. That nobody is playing on that downbeat is irrelevent.



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