On 11-Jan-07, at 9:45 PM, Carl Dershem wrote:
I'm working on cleaning up a chart I recently got, and aomng the
chords is "A +7 -9". Any idea what might be meant by this? The
chart consistently uses "-" for "flat" and "+" for sharp, but ...
"#7"???
I've never seen a sharp 7 chord. Might it be an A7(#9)?
Then notes in the chord (as voiced in the horn parts, concert pitch)
are:
F, B, Eb, G, Bb (bottom to top).
The plus sign in chord nomenclature (as defined by Carl Brandt and
Clinton Roemer, with whom I don't always agree, BTW) means augmented
triad, or A7(#5b9). I agree with Hiro et al, that this chord symbol
in most tonal situations is best described as A7(b13b9) rather than
augmented or #5. A #9 in that voicing is perfectly in agreement with
the b9 in the chord symbol (same chord scale, no dissonant vertical
relationship), so there is no discrepancy there.
That being said, however, your voicing presents problems. If it is a
"fencepost" chord, meaning one that is intended to convey the
harmonic meaning of the moment rather than some sort of approach
chord, then it does not agree with the chord symbol. Does it go up a
tone on the next note? That would be an explanation.
I assume that the F in the voicing is not in the bass register, that
is to say, it is above third-line D in the bass clef. This would make
it a fairly conventional G7(b13#9) voicing (upper-structure triad
over 3 and 7), which would indicate to me that the arranger somehow
transposed the chord symbol into Bb (was he a trumpet or tenor
player?) or else de-transposed the voicing when he was actually in
concert pitch (happens to me all the time), or else it is an approach
chord (as I explained above.)
The context is very important to understanding what went wrong here.
I hope you have enough advice to work it out.
I wrote the above this morning, before I saw the context quoted
below. Is the chord say, on beat 4 of the A7 bar? Your voicing could
be construed as an anticipation of the G7 to come. I know it doesn't
jive exactly, but jazz is like that at times (I don't often go so far
afield, but some writers do. Ever check out a Thad Jones brass
voicing against what he wrote for the piano? Wacky!) Once again, I
would have to see it, or hear it, to judge. Depending on the context,
your voicing over the A7 chord symbol might be just perfect.
Christopher
On Jan 12, 2007, at 1:48 PM, Carl Dershem wrote:
John Howell wrote:
At 6:45 PM -0800 1/11/07, Carl Dershem wrote:
I'm working on cleaning up a chart I recently got, and aomng the
chords is "A +7 -9". Any idea what might be meant by this? The
chart consistently uses "-" for "flat" and "+" for sharp, but ...
"#7"???
I've never seen a sharp 7 chord. Might it be an A7(#9)?
Then notes in the chord (as voiced in the horn parts, concert
pitch) are:
F, B, Eb, G, Bb (bottom to top).
I've enjoyed this thread, but it reminds me of why I am not and
never will be a music theorist!! Nor am I likely to play one on TV!
Carl, you spelled the horn parts, but not the bass note, which is
a pretty important piece of information! If there's an A or a C#
in the bass line, it could be some kind of A chord with
extensions. But given just the notes you spelled, and in the
absence of a C# or anything that could be interpreted as a sus3,
it ain't no kind of A chord no way!!
The chart is in the key of Bb, and all of the rhythm parts are just
chord changes - no spelled out parts in bass, piano, or guitar (the
drum part there is ////).
The first 8 bar's changes (as written) are:
Eb Eo Bb7 Ab7-9 G+7+9 C9 F7-9 Bb13 A+7-9 Ab7 G7-9
//// //// /// / //// //// // // // // // //
This leaves me thinking that measures 4 and 7 might be Aug7(#9) and
Aug7(b9) chords, but...
This, by the way, is exactly why I discourage the use of plus and
minus signs. Given the spelling with an F, some kind of Aaug5 is
obviously intended, and the plus is intended to be a dagger, but
that's exactly why it's confusing because the plus could have more
than one meaning. My first reaction was that the plus indicated a
major 7th. It doesn't!
Tell me about it! The use of the # and b signs make things easier
to understand, as does putting extensions within (parentheses). I
don't know about you, but I'd prefer seeing:
Eb Eo Bb7 Ab7(b9) G +7(#9) C9 F7(b9) Bb13 A +7(b9) Ab7 G7
(b9)
//// //// /// / //// //// // // // // // //
any night. It's enough of a change to help with clarity, even if
it does take up a bit more space.
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