I appreciate these words .... thank you. From the sense I make of it,
"atonal" and "no-tonal" come to mean pretty much the same thing,
i.e., lack of a tonal center due to the avoidance of leading tone
progressions and harmonies built of fourths and fifths, which tend to
announce a tonal center given their relation to the harmonic series.
I have always been careful to not equate 12 tone music with atonal
music, because via the construction of the row, you can achieve any
amount of tonality or lack thereof. I certainly agree on the
Berg .... a wonderful piece, so outstanding because of his ability
to use dodecaphonic techniques in such a sophisticated manner, and
make them do exactly what he wanted with them. I.e., the row did not
use him, he used it. If you have time, go to my web site (see below)
and check out a bite of my MA thesis, "Orthochromatics." It is
strictly 12 tone, but also very tonal, as the row was constructed of
4ths, 5th, and seconds.
Thanks,
Dean
On May 26, 2007, at 12:42 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
On May 26, 2007, at 2:44 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
Please define "Non -Tonal."
There are several definitions in current use of "tonal" and
"atonal", none very strict nor all-encompassing. Depending on which
one for "tonal" you are using, "non-tonal" would just be everything
else that you decided didn't fall under the "tonal" umbrella.
I think Andrew was meaning for tonal; any music defined by a
leading tone cadence, which has been the current European
definition since late Renaissance up to 1910 or so, where things
started to get harder to define. NOT tonal, by that definition,
includes early modal and anything that you might like to include
after 1910 or so that doesn't have its key centre defined by a
leading-tone cadence, and a whole cartload of non-European music as
well.
Atonal is just a very bad expression, and I wish we could come up
with something more descriptive. Originally it was meant to include
new music (at the start of the 1900's, that is) that didn't have a
clear key centre, or else actively avoided leaning even slightly
toward one, including most twelve-tone music. But the word has been
co-opted to mean "music I don't like" by just about everyone who
doesn't have a better definition than the above one to offer.
Culprits in this category include our local classical music critic,
who uses it as a dismissal whenever he doesn't understand a work,
and my grandmother.
Incidentally, someone mentioned Berg's Violin Concerto as an
example of atonal music. While it was undoubtedly composed using
serial twelve-tone techniques (though not exclusively) I find it to
be notable in that it DOES sort of bend toward a key, and in a
fairly conservative way too, in that the series includes two sets
of two stacked triads a fifth apart which sort of suggest a i-V
harmonic movement. I am somewhat ashamed to admit that perhaps one
of the reasons I find this work to be so beautiful is the
suggestion of traditional tonality, however fleeting. But then I
console myself by admiring his melodic sense and astonishing
orchestrational colours (it really is a gorgeous work!)
Christopher
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Dean M. Estabrook
http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home
Of all hoaxes, the one which is my most vexing bête noire on a
quotidian basis, is the cereal box top which informs simply,
"Lift Tab to Open." Then, "To Close, Insert Tab Here ." Yeah,
right! In attempting to accomplish the first direction, not only
the tab but also the slit intended to accept the aforementioned
protuberance have both been irreparably disfigured and rendered
dysfunctional. This debacle is then amplified by the misbehavior
of the recalcitrant inner bag, which can not be unsealed sans
mangling it, and hence, will not disperse its contents without
exiting the box itself. All I wanted was a bowl of cereal.
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