Hi Christopher and Ryan, Thank you both for amazingly helpful responses!!!
This leads two more questions: Paper size: If you are not removing any staves, this is pretty tiny! I printed out a test page, and even with some of my tricks (thicker staff lines, bigger notehead size), it seems small. I printed out a first page on 11x15 paper, which is what my publisher recommends as largest standard (just a bit smaller than European A3). I know that 12x18, largest my personal printer can handle, is rather cumbersome on the stand. What paper size do you use and/or what do you see when others give you band/w.e. scores? Massed clarinets: If I decide to go with massed Bb clarinets (they are typically 5-4-4 on three different parts), do I use solo/tutti as I would for string sections? How otherwise would I indicate I really want just one of them at any particular time? And some comments — please let me know if I’m going astray here: 1) I am thinking of writing for all trumpets, no cornets. The conductor says all cornets double trumpet, and my guess is that they all had trumpets as their main instruments in grad school. That said, I won’t use all 8 of them (their normal setup is 2-2-2 cornets plus 2 trumpets). I might use, instead, 3 or 4. I am doing this because I DON’T have experience writing for cornets, and so don’t have that sound in my head. 2) The list I have of available players doesn’t say massed flutes, just picc, then three flutes with two doubling the first part. I am leaning towards picc plus just two flutes. Thanks again! David > Christopher Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi David, > > I conduct a wind ensemble, and arrange for it. > > 1. I?ve seen both, but the modern preference is for bassoons to go below the > low clarinets. > > 2. Again, I?ve seen both, but trumpets, horns, trombones is the way I see it > most often. This is even more universal than the bassoon placement. > > 3. The string bass is as you said. It only makes sense to put it at the very > bottom if there is an actual string section. In this case, it?s a pairing > with tuba. > > I?m glad you have separate cornet and trumpet parts. I prefer that, > especially with someone who can write for it and players with the correct > instruments. > > The doubled parts are for weight, so as to allow say Clarinet 1 to be heard > as easily as Trumpet 1. I might be happy with one to a part in the trumpet > section, but bands that work the way you outlined let the trumpets play > warmly, so one player doesn?t HAVE to carry the weight by himself. Trumpets > play much more often in concert band than in orchestra, so they can use the > endurance help of playing more softly. The clarinets are the workhorses in a > concert band, so the numbers you say are by no means outrageous. It?s nice to > allow them to balance the sax section, or the trumpet section, by themselves, > the same way that strings are massed in an orchestra. > > Massed flutes are quite common, too. I?m surprised that a band of that size > doesn?t have at least six flutes. But they are very often the high octave of > some other part, so the way you said is not entirely out of line. > > Band or ?wind ensemble? doesn?t change the score order, but with ?wind > ensemble? it may be more common to have suggested weights of sections, as you > mentioned. Bands generally mass a lot of parts. This goes back to Sousa, who > more-or-less came up with the woodwind-heavy doubling we see commonly today. > You can specify ?one only? whenever you want. But I suggest that loud > passages use everyone available. > > I don?t remove empty staves at all, unless it will save me score pages (say, > for long passages where entire sections rest), so I agree with Gould. As a > conductor, the placement on the page is an important indicator to me where I > am pointing my cues, and my expectations. This isn?t Beethoven?s 5th, that > everyone and his brother can conduct from memory, and is published in masses > that need to save paper. Your piece is a new and presumably more complex > piece that needs all the help you can muster, and not that much paper. > > Hope this helps. > > Christopher > > > Ryan Beard <[email protected]> wrote: > > 1) It?s pretty much evenly split. I prefer Bassoons below clarinets, but > others prefer them below oboes. If your bassoons only play with the oboes > creating a double reed mini ensemble, then you might want bassoons below. If > you bassoon parts are pretty independent from oboes, but mostly double the > bass clarinet and bari sax, then you might want to put them below clarinets > and above saxes. > > 2) Trumpets above horns in band scores. (Though there certainly are > exceptions in the standard literature). And cornets above trumpets (though > again, there are exceptions). > > 3) Yes, Double Bass below Tuba and above Timp/Percussion. > > You didn?t ask, but some people are sticklers to putting mallet percussion at > the very bottom, below the drums and other non-pitched percussion. But, if > you?re composing for a specific amount of players at their own ?station?, > then mallets can go with whichever part it?s assigned to. > > Wind Ensemble vs Band shouldn?t have much effect on the score order. If > you?re writing one to a part, like an orchestra wind section, then you might > want to stick with orchestra order, particularly if you think that orchestras > would be interested in performing this more than a band. > > I like doubled parts, especially in the clarinets and trumpets. The clarinet > section can take on the role of the string section (particularly with your > cadre of low clarinets available?but I would advise to cue any alto clarinet > solos in another instrument as a back up, since most bands seem not to use > that instrument). Having those parts doubled gives some extra meat to the > sound. The doubled cornet parts areahold over from the early days of > transcribing orchestra rep for winds. The cornets would play the violin > melodies while the trumpets would just play the original orchestral trumpet > part. Having the full section of clarinets and cornets can allow for divisi > opportunities, which could come in handy. > > Yes, it?s true that the majority of band scores don?t remove empty staves. > It?s very much quicker to prepare a score without staves being removed. > > Ryan > >> On Aug 6, 2018, at 10:01 AM, David Froom <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I?m really hoping to enlist someone who regularly writes for band to give me >> some advice. >> >> I?m writing this for a top notch, professional group. Some questions: >> >> For score order, there seem to be some variations from orchestral standard. >> But different sources say different things. Here are my questions: >> >> 1) Some say bassoons go between Ob/Eng Horn and Clarinets. Others say they >> go below clarinets. Which is more standard these days for professional bands? >> >> 2) Some say the trumpets above the horns, others say this is changing these >> days to standard orchestral (horns above trumpets because they often mingle >> with the saxophones). Which is more standard these days for professional >> bands? >> >> 3) Double bass, I?m told, goes below the tuba, but above piano ? then timp >> plus percussion on the bottom. Is this standard these days for professional >> bands? My orchestral instincts want it at the very bottom. >> >> The group I?m writing for could be full band or wind ensemble (my choice), >> so as many as Eb clarinet, 12 Bb clarinets (4 to each of three parts), 2-3 >> low clarinets (bass, contra, alto), 6 cornets (2 to each of three parts) >> plus 2 trumpets ? though any of the cornet players could play trumpet, picc >> trumpet, or flugelhorn. Then 2 euphoniums, 3 tubas. >> >> I?m leaning towards asking for one to a part (clarinets as Eb, 2 Bb, alto >> cl, bass cl); 3-6 trumpets, 1 euphonium, 1 tuba. Can anyone advise as to why >> I should go with all the doubled parts? Thinking as someone coming from the >> orchestra world, all those extra clarinets, trumpets, euphoniums/tubas seem >> to be a strange and troublesome counterbalance to the rest of the group >> (pic, 3 fl, 2 ob, eh, 2 bn, cbn, sax quartet, 4 horns, 3 trb, btrb). >> >> And does band vs wind ensemble change any of the score order? >> >> Final question: According to Gould in "Behind Bars,? people do NOT remove >> empty staves! She grants that timp/percussion can be removed from the page >> if they aren?t playing, but everyone else stays, doesn?t have empty staves >> removed from any of the pages. Is this really true!!!??? >> >> Thanks very much in advance! >> >> David Froom _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: [email protected]
