At 15:43 Uhr -0700 01.05.2002, Ben Hines wrote: >At 11:35 PM +0200 5/1/02, Max Horn wrote: >>At 3:37 Uhr -0700 30.04.2002, Ben Hines wrote: >>>At 10:25 AM +0200 4/30/02, Bernd Kuemmerlen wrote: >>>> >>>>As this has been discussed on this list last week, maybe someone with a >>>>little bit more insight on this issue might comment on this on >>>>macosxhints? >>>>Maybe a hint on how to update passwd before 0.4.1 is out? >>> >>> >>>Sigh.. I said we should have done a .4.0a just to fix this. >> >><sarcasm> >>Oops, sorry I completely missed you volunteered to do all the >>release work, cool. Go ahead and release 0.4.0a, please. I am glad >>you have enough time to cope with all the details involved etc. >>Thanks for volunteering, I am eager to see 0.4.0a! When can we >>expect you to announce the release? >></sarcasm>
Let me first point out that I am not really interested in a flame war, it serves no purpose. That's also why I marked what I said for what it was (pure sarcasm). And I am not feeling guilty for it, either, it's simply a way to vent stacked up frustration, and is certainly not meant personal against you, Ben. If I wanted to get personal I'd get myself a big trout and thwap you with it 8-) >Max, i am happy to help. Glad to hear! >This bug is probably about the "worst case scenario" for any >possible bug fink could have. Slightly worse being if we rm -rfed >the entire disk. I have a different view, let me tell you how I perceived this bug so far (and please read it fully before bashing at me): "A pretty nasty bug, but I have yet to hear a single direct report of it affecting anybody. I know it did happen, but I never "met" anybody to whom it happend. Hence in my eyes it's a problem with very serious consequences, but which luckily isn't very likely to happen. Still something that should be fixed of course" Now you might disagree, but mind you, that's how I perceived it based on the input I got. If nobody points out problems strongly enough to me, I can't judge them correctly. But of course, Fink is a *group effort*. So I think problems should not always require me to look at them (and luckily they usually don't). In this case it sadly took an extremly long time for the passwd package to be fixed (note that I do not intend to attack Finlay with this now, I know he was busy; I am just try to recount things as I see them). Also maybe the problem was underestimated, but based on the input we got on it, it didn't look like that. The next bad thing that happend (or rather did not happen) was that passwd never was fixed in stable! That's pretty stupid of course, and I still don't quite understand how it could end up like this. Maybe if we had a QA team that would check this sort of things full time in a properly organized fashion, this wouldn't happen. Alas, we don't have this, nor does it look to me we really will have on anytime soon (but volunteers are always welcome :-). It simply isn't sufficient to check this sort of problems a couple of days before a release, you never catch them all. >If any product of mine had such a bug I would have released an >update immediately. (back in october, i believe, when the bug first >appeared) For the records, the first time I heard about this was with this bug report from the end of January: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=508902&group_id=17203&atid=117203 Also note that the passwd in the bindist is the new (fixed) one, and has been so since the release of the bindist. >At least a file release or news item of ONLY passwd. (you don't have >to release an entire fink update!) But nothing was posted. No news. >No "Warning to fink users". Yes, there probably should have been some warnings. A pity nobody thought of it, or suggested it. :-( >No partial file release. No nothing. Updated in stable-cvs, and updated in bindist is not nothing. > Just short statements that "smart users won't delete users with >system preferences". I agree that's a stupid statement to make (I don't recall it was made, nor by whom, but that's really unimportant now). > Why the hostility towards the users? The only clue that the fink >devs know anything about this bug has been on this mailing list. Woa woa, that's a heavy accusation, claiming we are hostile to end users, and in my eyes extremly unfair. I think we have proven often enough we are not. Look at the heaps of mails dedicated members of the Fink community write every day to help answers dozens of support requests (of which a non-to-small percentage are not even directly fink releated), providing for a free help of high quality. We are only humans not machines, and not even paid for this. Maybe your expectations are to high? >I didnt even mention you in the damn message, Max. I did NOT say >"Max should have done a new release". Well, since I am the one in charge of releases, the responsible guy, there wasn't much room to interpret it, was there? Of course I don't think you meant it personal, but that doesn't change the fact that it was quite plainly targeted at me, even if you didn't do it conciously. > I said something should have been done. NOTHING was done, leaving >more users to hose THEIR ENTIRE SYSTEMS. No need to SHOUT AT ME, dude, please try to keep this civil. From my experiences, this is a bad way to state things: "Ha! I knew we should have XYZ!" It basically boils down to: "See, I am the great genius, you fools should have listed to me", and will quickly let to arguments and heated discussions (like it did now <g>). I don't really think you meant your message like that, but it actually was quite closed in content to this. A much better way to handle this sort of things is to say something constructive, like: "Yeah, we really should do something about this now. Here is a news article we should post on the front page: FOO. And this mail should be sent around: BAR." Just like David did, I am answering to his email now :-) Cheers, Max -- ----------------------------------------------- Max Horn Software Developer email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> phone: (+49) 6151-494890 _______________________________________________________________ Have big pipes? SourceForge.net is looking for download mirrors. We supply the hardware. You get the recognition. Email Us: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ Fink-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-devel
