Send Firearmsregprof mailing list submissions to
[email protected]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/firearmsregprof
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Firearmsregprof digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. RE: Source Query (Phil Lee)
2. RE: Source Query (Joseph E. Olson)
3. RE: Source Query ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 15:38:18 -0500
From: "Phil Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Source Query
To: "Autumn Rose Press" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ucla. Edu" <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"
Yes and no. The FBI records annually what is classified by police
investigators as "justifiable homicides". The latest edition for 2005 can
be found at:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/murder_homicide.
html
For other years you'll have to root around amongst the links at:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
This isn't a complete source and reflects only events immediately obvious
to
police on first impression investigation that the shooting was justified.
So, if a private citizens witness a criminal shooting a police officer and
see a private citizen pick up the officer's gun to defend him by killing
the
criminal shooter, then the police investigator will likely classify the
killing of the criminal as justifiable.
First impressions are important because classifications are not changed
in
the FBI accounts once submitted. There results in a serious undercount of
justifiable homicides by private citizens (perhaps less so for police).
Professor Gary Kleck has concluded that the number of civilian legal
defensive homicides (CLDHs) with guns per year is typically 7.1% to 12.9%
of
the reported murder rate. Part of the reason these CLDHs are
under-reported
by the FBI is that the FBI bases its reports on initial classification of
the homicide and Police tend to charge individuals unless there is clear
evidence the killing was justified. Some idea of the scope of this
under-reporting is seen from Time magazine from their article "Death by
Gun"
July 17, 1989. That article reported 199 murders (charges since trials
had
not yet been held) and 14 CLDHs (6.6% of gun homicides) for the week of
1-7
May. A year later, Time followed-up their report with the article "Death
by
Gun: One Year Later", Time, May 14, 1990, to see how the courts had
handled
the cases. In the follow-up article Time reported that there were 28
CLDHs
(13.1% of the tracked gun homicides), an increase of 100% on the original
report with at least 43 cases not yet adjudicated at the one-year later
follow-up.
It would appear the US murder rate is about 10% too high and justifiable
homicides should get most of these corrections. I don't know of any one
who
makes an effort to estimate the actually number of justifiable homicides
and
keep records. Obviously, there would have to be a retrospective component
to such calculations since investigations and resolution of cases take
time.
Let me mention that the CDC keeps data available through web forms at:
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate9.html
and
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html
But you can't get the same numbers as the FBI and local police report.
For
example, the FBI reported in 2004 police and private citizen justifiable
homicides total (see 2004 CIUS Tables 2.15 and 2.16) 431 + 229 = 666
whereas
the CDC shows 372 for that year.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Autumn Rose
Press
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 12:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ucla. Edu
Subject: Source Query
Is there yet a single source of national statistical information on
police and defensive citizen use of firearms? Sorry if this is redundant,
I'm new.
Thanks,
jh
_______________________________________________
To post, send message to [email protected]
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/firearmsregprof
Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or
wrongly) forward the messages to others.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release Date: 2/4/2007
1:30 AM
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release Date: 2/4/2007
1:30 AM
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:51:07 -0600
From: "Joseph E. Olson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Source Query
To: "Autumn Rose Press" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ucla. Edu" <[email protected]>,
"Phil Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The CDC data is all "first impression" based too.
The actual, judicated outcome is never reflected in these stats.
Thus, they also understate the number of justifiable homicides.
"Phil Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 02/04/07 2:38 PM >>>
Let me mention that the CDC keeps data available through web forms
at:
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate9.html
and
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html
But you can't get the same numbers as the FBI and local police
report.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/private/firearmsregprof/attachments/20070204/bf0415fc/attachment.html
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 00:31:26 -0500 (EST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Source Query
To: [email protected]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
-----Original Message-----
From: "Joseph E. Olson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Feb 4, 2007 11:51 PM
To: Autumn Rose Press <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ucla. Edu" <[email protected]>, Phil Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Source Query
The CDC data is all "first impression" based too.
The actual, judicated outcome is never reflected in these stats.
Thus, they also understate the number of justifiable homicides.
I think I once looked it up, and CDC is based on death certificates. I was
trying to figure out why the FBI figures for homicide and the CDC numbers
were *way* off, as in by a thousand or two. A partial answer was that
reporting to the FBI is voluntary and a number of jurisdictions don't
bother. In this context, I'd have to wonder whether one could count on CDC
at all for self-defense numbers, since the odds are the medical examiner
has nothing but a corpse to go upon, and while he can judge that the
deceased died of a gunshot, can hardly be expected to know whether he
"needed killing" or not.
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Firearmsregprof mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/firearmsregprof
Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or
wrongly) forward the messages to others.
End of Firearmsregprof Digest, Vol 39, Issue 5
**********************************************
