You've done no better here, this post is as obscure and obfuscated as the
first. Just a bunch of unsupported rantings. It sounds so much like the
rantings of a teen that just got grounded for messing up big time.
So, what did marcus have tp verbally spank you for? hmm?
Thanks,
Ron DuFresne
On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Loki wrote:
> Ok, this whole thread deserves my feedback. I'm sure a great deal of people
> here in this forum have sat down at their computer one day in a REALLY bad
> mood and ended up getting a question that they don't think on before
> responding.. nor thinking properly about the response that they are
> posting.. That is the responsibilities and issues faced when participating
> in public forums. I do stand strongly behind my post, although it left a
> great deal in the dark, I do still believe it to be true. I do however,
> regret the way I chose my words.
>
> The problem here was that someone had posted how great the NFR IDS was, when
> in fact, I have a long history of problems with it that this forum is
> obviously not aware of. On top of that, I sat in on a 1-2 hour big slap in
> the face session by Marcus Ranom to BUGTRAQ, all open disclosure mailing
> lists in existence, and every other security professional that I know. As we
> all in a group sat their with jaws dropped to the ground as he spoke, we
> couldn't help but wonder if he was drugged when he prepared his speech. I
> will not go into detail about his speech and the insulting manor in which he
> directed it, as I believe this list has been bored enough with how off-topic
> this rant has become.
>
> I will however apologize for not posting a much more constructive message to
> begin with... I will end this message with this: If Marcus Ranom wants to
> diminish the amount of "gray-hat" security professionals out there then he
> is asking for a world of textbook-bred security admins who have no "real
> world" experience in security at all, only which has been taught to them at
> a UCExtension class..
>
> And as far as the NFR IDS goes, no, it is not the "best ids out there" it to
> has its share of problems and vulnerabilities, some of which we have not yet
> disclosed.. so I should state my original point "think twice before
> deploying NFR in a mission-critical environment"
>
> Consider me the "Ebert of the security industry" this one gets 2 thumbs
> down..
> That and the CTO of a company should never make the mistake of gambling
> their reputation by giving a speech
> that could be considered HIGHLY controversial to some people.. just bad
> professionalism in my book
>
>
> </end of rant>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Loki [LoA]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> PGP Key fingerprint = 67 1D 12 BE 61 D6 63 B2 6A 8C F8 A1 80 88 1B 4
> [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]# ./crack /etc/passwd > passwd.cr
> [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]# su - root
> [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]#
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Chris Brenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Firewalls LIST" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 7:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Intrusion Detection (NFR SUCKS)
>
>
> > At 09:45 PM 8/3/00 -0400, Chris Brenton wrote:
> > >Loki wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ok, this is going to cause a lot of flames, but I really don't care..
> :)
> > > > I attended Defcon and Mr. Marcus Ranum made a complete ass out of
> > > himself by
> > > > insulting close to 75% of his customer base with his choice for
> > > discussion...
> > >
> > >Not to pick, but what does this have to do with firewalls, IDS or NFR's
> > >ability to function as advertised? This is like saying "his product
> > >sucks because I saw monkeys fly out of his butt". The two concepts have
> > >no relevance.
> >
> > Each product may have its plus/minuses, and some are just freely available
> > as in SNORT. Learning SNORT can be very cumbersome also, so again I do
> not
> > see the distinction or relevance of the point you are raising.
> >
> > The truth of the matter is, there are lots issues in the Firewall and IDS
> > space that have gone unresolved for quite some time. There are people
> > coming up with evil applications that can wreak havoc on a site or
> > individual without them even knowing about it. There are people who
> > publicize these facts hoping vendors (especially Microsoft) will pick up
> on
> > the fact that there are huge sucking chest wounds in the software they
> come
> > out with and hopefully someday will fix their software Some other
> > organizations try to exploit this fact by attempting to charge lots of
> > money to people who want to be sprinkled with "security pixie dust" and be
> > transformed into Ultimate Hackers.
> >
> > SNORT is also not a commercially available IDS. So it is like comparing
> > apples and oranges not apples to apples.
> >
> > > > On a more "unpersonal" note, NFR in my oppinion bites the big one..
> > > That may be
> > > > a biased opinion due to my heavy involvement and support in the SNORT
> IDS..
> > >
> > >Hummm...
> > >You flame Marcus, state his product sucks without providing any backup
> > >data and also mention your involvement with a different IDS product.
> > >IMHO this statement sounds pretty "personal". Its certainly not
> > >technical.
> > >
> > > > but.. hey.. I did get to play with it and noticed a lot of problems
> and
> > > issues
> > > > with it.. that also may be due to the fact it that it was an eval.. oh
> > > well..
> > >
> > >Problems and issues like...???
> >
> > There are several issues with every single IDS product on the market. It
> > doesn't have this feature, it doesn't have that, it can't do this.. The
> > Ultimate Firewall is still the best IDS product available.. !!
> >
> >
> > > > (worthless rant) I'll call this one my, negative (-).02 cents
> > >
> > >You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Its just a bummer when
> > >people take a personal grudge and try and pass it off as technical
> > >content. Especially in a public forum.
> >
> > I have personal grudges with lots of people, but at least I have reason to
> > sometimes.. :)
> >
> > /m
> >
> >
> >
> > >Cheers,
> > >Chris
> > >--
> > >**************************************
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >* Mastering Cisco Routers
> > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/078212643X/
> > >* Mastering Network Security
> > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782123430/
> > >-
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> >
> > -
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