Diederik Schouten wrote:
> 
> Paul Robertson wrote:
> > Once again, if the bridge mode product does any protections that aren't
> > silent, it will potentially be detectable on non-management networks.
> 
> And there's the big IF!
> 
> And that depends on the implementation of the firewall, both for routed and
> bridged mode. For the lucent BRICK I know it protects silently unless the
> admin chooses to allow ICMP reply's to be generated.

I think Paul was talking more about TCP ISN rewriting, NOPing out
unwanted TCP options... Stuff like that.


> I never said the firewall is the target of the attack... but it 
> is a hindrance that needs to be overcome. How to get out of the 
> bank if all the doors are closed.

Only an A-1 firewall will buy you that. That analogy doesn't really
hold for a firewall that does anything useful. (Unfortunately.)


> Actually no.
> 
> hosts A1..10 --> bridged firewall --> switch --> hosts B1..10
> 
> When A1 arps for B1, B1 will answer, updating the switch MAC table.

And this brings me to another point: fingerprinting leaks.
In some cases, knowing the MAC address tells you a lot about
a box. (Thinking of non-PC boxes with built-in NICs.)

Even for boxes using off-the-shelf NICs, it can still tell you 
if several IPs resolve to the same machine, which may be useful
in a penetration <hehe there goes the content filter trigger again> 
situation.

And, here, have another low blow while I'm at it: proxy ARP
does indeed answer using the firewall's MAC address for all 
published boxes. Even if they're down, or temporarily out and 
traveling, or has a physical L1 switch moving it back and forth 
between separate physical networks once every few minutes. 
(Yes, these things do exist :))


> Mikael Olsson wrote:
> > So, where's the flexibility?
> > (No, I still don't get it :))
> 
> That's because you are Proxy-ARPing... it's too similar to 
> bridged mode.

Oh. Hrm. I need to get a closer a look at a brick one of these days
to satisfy my curiosity.


(Ouch, both me and Paul having a go at you after having warmed
up against eachother. Sorry 'bout that :) )

-- 
Mikael Olsson, Clavister AB
Storgatan 12, Box 393, SE-891 28 �RNSK�LDSVIK, Sweden
Phone: +46 (0)660 29 92 00   Mobile: +46 (0)70 26 222 05
Fax: +46 (0)660 122 50       WWW: http://www.clavister.com

"Senex semper diu dormit"
_______________________________________________
Firewalls mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.gnac.net/mailman/listinfo/firewalls

Reply via email to