> I think Paul was talking more about TCP ISN rewriting, NOPing out
> unwanted TCP options... Stuff like that.

I know, but I wasn't :)

> > I never said the firewall is the target of the attack... but it 
> > is a hindrance that needs to be overcome. How to get out of the 
> > bank if all the doors are closed.
> 
> Only an A-1 firewall will buy you that. That analogy doesn't really
> hold for a firewall that does anything useful. (Unfortunately.)

True when you're in, there are many ways out...

> > Actually no.
> > 
> > hosts A1..10 --> bridged firewall --> switch --> hosts B1..10
> > 
> > When A1 arps for B1, B1 will answer, updating the switch MAC table.
> 
> And this brings me to another point: fingerprinting leaks.
> In some cases, knowing the MAC address tells you a lot about
> a box. (Thinking of non-PC boxes with built-in NICs.)

Sure, can't argue with that.
But all this is based on the assumption that the attacker or trojan is
already within your "secured" network.
 
> Even for boxes using off-the-shelf NICs, it can still tell you 
> if several IPs resolve to the same machine, which may be useful
> in a penetration <hehe there goes the content filter trigger again> 
> situation.

Indeed, and there are many more ways to find out of several machines
resolve to the same machine.

> And, here, have another low blow while I'm at it: proxy ARP
> does indeed answer using the firewall's MAC address for all 
> published boxes. Even if they're down, or temporarily out and 
> traveling, or has a physical L1 switch moving it back and forth 
> between separate physical networks once every few minutes. 
> (Yes, these things do exist :))

Ehm... you're attacking your own standpoint now? ;)

I don't see how this can strengthen the position of the proxy-ARPing
firewall vs the routed or bridged.

> > That's because you are Proxy-ARPing... it's too similar to 
> > bridged mode.
> 
> Oh. Hrm. I need to get a closer a look at a brick one of these days
> to satisfy my curiosity.
>
> (Ouch, both me and Paul having a go at you after having warmed
> up against eachother. Sorry 'bout that :) )

No problem, just keep it coming :)
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