Dear Bob,
Yes, I agree: the difference that makes a difference is operationally generated by a receiving system; information itself is nothing but a series of differences (contained in a probability distribution). The selection mechanisms in the receiving systems that position the incoming uncertainty have to be specified (as hypotheses). Meaningful information emerges from selecting the signal from the noise. The meaningful information (the differences that make a difference) can again be communicated as information (for example, in and among biological systems). Thus, the operation is recursive and the communication / autopoiesis continues. Meaning can only be communicated by systems which are able to entertain a symbolic order reflexively such as human beings and in interhuman discourses. Ill read the book by Reading. Best, Loet _____ Loet Leydesdorff Professor, University of Amsterdam Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR), Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam. Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598; fax: +31-842239111 l...@leydesdorff.net <mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net> ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/ ; http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ <http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en> &hl=en From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Bob Logan Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:55 PM To: Stanley N Salthe Cc: fis Subject: Re: [Fis] FW: [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S. Stan - great formula but as I learned from Anthony Reading who wrote a lovely book on information Meaningful Information - it is the recipient that brings the meaning to the information. PS My book What is Information was been translated into Portuguese and published in Brazil where I am doing a 4 city, 5 university speaking tour. The book has not yet appeared in English but it is scheduled to be published soon by Demo press. Regards from Brazil - Bob On 2012-03-17, at 11:17 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote: Concerning the meaning (or effect) of information (or constraint) in general, I have proposed that context is crucial in modulating the effect -- in all cases. Thus: it would be like the logical example: Effect = context a x Constraint ^context b STAN On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Christophe Menant <christophe.men...@hotmail.fr> wrote: Dear FISers, Indeed information can be considered downwards (physical & meaningless) and upwards (biological & meaningful). The difference being about interpretation or not. It also introduces an evolutionary approach to information processing and meaning generation. There is a chapter on that subject in a recent book (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Information-Computation-Philosophical-Understanding -Foundations/dp/toc/9814295477). Computation on Information, Meaning and Representations.An Evolutionary Approach Content of the chapter: 1. Information and Meaning. Meaning Generation 1.1. Information.Meaning of information and quantity of information 1.2. Meaningful information and constraint satisfaction. A systemic approach 2. Information, Meaning and Representations. An Evolutionary Approach 2.1. Stay alive constraint and meaning generation for organisms 2.2. The Meaning Generator System (MGS). A systemic and evolutionary approach 2.3. Meaning transmission 2.4. Individual and species constraints. Group life constraints. Networks of meanings 2.5. From meaningful information to meaningful representations 3. Meaningful Information and Representations in Humans 4. Meaningful Information and Representations in Artificial Systems 4.1. Meaningful information and representations from traditional AI to Nouvelle AI. Embodied-situated AI 4.2. Meaningful representations versus the guidance theory of representation 4.3. Meaningful information and representations versus the enactive approach 5. Conclusion and Continuation 5.1. Conclusion 5.2. Continuation A version close to the final text can be reached at <http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf> http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf As Plamen says, we may be at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. But Im afraid that an understanding of the meaning of information needs clear enough an understanding of the constraint at the source of the meaning generation process. And even for basic organic meanings coming from a stay alive constraint, we have to face the still mysterious nature of life. And for human meanings, the even more mysterious nature of human mind. This is not to discourage our efforts in investigating these questions. Just to put a stick in the ground showing where we stand. Best, Christophe _____ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:47:28 +0100 From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es To: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S. -------- Mensaje original -------- Asunto: Re: [Fis] Physics of computing Fecha: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:24:38 +0100 De: Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <mailto:plamen.l.simeo...@gmail.com> <plamen.l.simeo...@gmail.com> Para: Pedro C. Marijuan <mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> Referencias: <mailto:20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com> <20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com> <mailto:4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es> <4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es> +++++++++++ Dear All, I could not agree more with Pedro's opinion. The referred article is interesting indeed. but, information is only physical in the narrow sense taken by conventional physicalistic-mechanistic-computational approaches. Such a statement defends the reductionist view at nature: sorry. But information is more than bits and Shanno's law and biology has far more to offer. I think we are at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. So, we may need to take our (Maxwell) "daemons" and (Turing) "oracles" closer under the lens. In fact, David Ball, the author of the Nature paper approached me after my talk in Brussels in 2010 on the Integral Biomathics approach and told me he thinks it were a step in the right direction: biology driven mathematics and computation. By the way, our book of ideas on IB will be released next month by Springer: http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+complexit y/book/978-3-642-28110-5 If you wish to obtain it at a lower price (65 EUR incl. worldwide delivery) please send me your names, mailing addresses and phone numbers via email to: pla...@simeio.org. There must be at least 9 orders to keep that discount price.. Best, Plamen On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> wrote: Dear discussants, I tend to disagree with the motto "information is physical" if taken too strictly. Obviously if we look "downwards" it is OK, but in the "upward" direction it is different. Info is not only physical then, and the dimension of self-construction along the realization of life cycle has to be entered. Then the signal, the info, has "content" and "meaning". Otherwise if we insist only in the physical downward dimension we have just conventional computing/ info processing. My opinion is that the notion of absence is crucial for advancing in the upward, but useless in the downward. By the way, I already wrote about info and the absence theme in a 1994 or 1995 paper in BioSystems... best ---Pedro walter.riof...@terra.com.pe escribió: Thanks John and Kevin to update issues in information, computation, energy and reality. I would like point out to other articles more focused in how coherence and entanglement are used by living systems (far from thermal equilibrium): Engel G.S., Calhoun T.R., Read E.L., Ahn T.K., Mancal T., Cheng Y.C., Blankenship R.E., Fleming G.R. (2007) Evidence for wavelike energy transfer through quantum coherence in photosynthetic systems. Nature, 446(7137): 782-786. Collini E., Scholes G. (2009) Coherent intrachain energy in migration in a conjugated polymer at room temperature. Science, vol. 323 No. 5912 pp. 369-373. Gauger E.M., Rieper E., Morton J.J.L., Benjamin S.C., Vedral V. (2011) Sustained Quantum Coherence and Entanglement in the Avian Compass. Phys. Rev. Lett., 106: 040503. Cia, J. et al, (2009) Dynamic entanglement in oscillating molecules. arXiv:0809.4906v1 [quant-ph] Sincerely, Walter _____ _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov landline: +49.30.38.10.11.25 <tel:%2B49.30.38.10.11.25> fax/ums: +49.30.48.49.88.26.4 <tel:%2B49.30.48.49.88.26.4> mobile: +44.12.23.96.85.69 <tel:%2B44.12.23.96.85.69> email: pla...@simeio.org URL: www.simeio.org <http://www.simeio.org/> ------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ______________________ Robert K. Logan Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan
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