Dear colleagues,
Differently from The Symbolic Species, Incomplete Nature is too naturalistic for my taste. It seems to me that the incompleteness and absences are consequential to selection mechanisms operating. Selections can operate recursively and lead to hyper-selection, trajectory formation (some selections can be selected for stabilization), or regime formation (some stabilizations can be selected for globalization). Adding reflection to systems (such as in symbolic species) adds layers of selection; for example, by distinguishing between meaning-processing and information-processing. Selection mechanisms can only be hypothesized (as genotypical to systems). A naturalistic approach will not capture this knowledge-based layer of discursive selections, in my opinion. Perhaps, I missed the message. Best wishes, Loet _____ Loet Leydesdorff Professor, University of Amsterdam Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR), Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam. Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598; fax: +31-842239111 l...@leydesdorff.net <mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net> ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/ ; http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ <http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en> &hl=en From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Pedro C. Marijuan Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:35 AM To: Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK - PRESENTED BY DEACON Dear Gordana, Hector and colleagues, I keep thinking that the theme of "absences" is really fundamental for advancing the foundations of information science, but I am disappointed by the way Terry has oriented the book. Both style and contents are inadequate for my taste. He continues to do what he did in previous papers, highly promising ones (as some parties discussed in past messages we had in the list); pointing to exciting new absential aspects but finally focusing in the physical ones (without much new enlightenment). In my opinion the most appropriate direction to advance an absential calculus of sorts is the language of SYMMETRY. Several parties in this list have already discussed the theme (me included). Symmetry breaking and symmetry restoration and related formal tools are the way to tackle the absential dimension in the genuine informational entities: cells, nervous systems, societies (and the vacuum!!). To reiterate that the fundamental point is not about computation, but about self-construction. Those "absences" refer to "gaps", " functional voids" in the self-construction cycles/processes of those entities --there might be 'natural computation' associated, eg, in cellular signaling systems, but finally the ruling aspect is about self-maintenance and reproduction. We could also enlist McLuhan in this critical position regarding the physicalist-computationalist interpretations, I think. So, after a glance in the whole book, I am now in the detailed reading of Chapter 4, with mounting disappointment... "Incomplete Book"!! Deeper exploration needed!! best ---Pedro Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic escribió: Dear Hector, This might be a good way, Terry Deacon presenting his book: http://fora.tv/2012/04/18/Incomplete_Nature_How_Mind_Emerged_From_Matter What I find fascinating with this book is the whole dynamical framework, from thermodynamics, to morphodynamics and teleodynamics. See also: http://www.american.edu/cas/economics/info-metrics/pdf/upload/Beavers-Oct-20 11-presentation.pdf For sure, Deacon is not computationalist and his ideas of information and computation are pretty classical ones. But it does not matter in this context. For a computationalist all three kinds of dynamics are computational processes, and corresponding structures are informational structures. With best wishes, Gordana -----Original Message----- From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Hector Zenil Sent: den 27 april 2012 22:40 To: Pedro C. Marijuan Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] POSTS ON TERRY' S BOOK Could someone summarize why Terrence Deacon's book is such a presumed breakthrough judging by the buzz it has generated among FIS enthusiasts? Thanks. On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan <mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> wrote: Dear colleagues, Krassimir Markov's suggestion is excellent. Next year we could have a FIS conference in his place, centered in the exploration of the new info avenue drafted by Terrence Deacon's book, and started by Stuart Kauffman and others. Previously my suggestion is that we have a regular discussion session (like the many ones had in this list). A couple of voluntary chairs, and an opening text would be needed. Sure Bob Logan could handle this (perhaps off list) and we would have a fresh discussion session for the coming months. Technical Note: the current messages are not entering in the list; the filter is rejecting them as there are too many addresses together. Please, send the fis address single, and all the others separated or as as Cc. Otherwise I will have to enter them one by one. best ---Pedro (fis list coordination) ------------------------------------------------- Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ ------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- ------------------------------------------------- Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ -------------------------------------------------
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